Texas Department of Transportation Commission Meeting

Dewitt C. Greer Building
125 East 11th Street
Austin, Texas

9:00 a.m. Thursday, August  28, 2003

COMMISSION MEMBERS:

JOHN W. JOHNSON, Chairman
ROBERT L. NICHOLS
RIC WILLIAMSON
 

STAFF:

MIKE W. BEHRENS, Executive Director
RICHARD MONROE, General Counsel
TAMMY STONE, Executive Assistant to the Deputy Executive Director
DEE HERNANDEZ, Minute Order Clerk

MR. JOHNSON: Good morning. It is 9:11 a.m. and I would like to call this meeting of the Texas Transportation Commission to order. Welcome to our August meeting. It is indeed a pleasure to have you here today. Note for the record that public notice of this meeting, containing all items on the agenda, was filed with the office of Secretary of State at 1:34 p.m. on August 20.

Somebody has advised me that we have some video footage that Homeland Security, through the major networks, wanted us to show at this time before we get into the meeting proper, so if you'll turn to the screen here, I think you'll see something very informative.

(Whereupon, a videotape was played.)

MR. JOHNSON: Ric, the only thing I can say is whoever that person, the catcher Porter, you made his day by asking for his autograph. And secondly, I know that everybody noticed that when you got out there you checked to make sure that all the outfielders were on the warning track when you threw that high hard one in there.

MR. WILLIAMSON: You really didn't have to do that, Johnny.

(General laughter.)

MR. JOHNSON: At this time in our meeting I'll ask my colleagues if they have anything that they would like to bring before the commission meeting, and so I'll turn first to Nolan Ryan over here.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Probably for the first time since I started my public service career, Mr. Chairman, I'm speechless. Thank you.

MR. JOHNSON: Robert?

MR. NICHOLS: I didn't really have anything, just welcome, everybody.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you.

Before we begin with the business portion of our meeting, please let me remind everyone that if you wish to address the commission, we would ask that you fill out a registration card in the lobby. To comment on an agenda item, we would ask that you fill out a yellow card and please identify the agenda item that you wish to comment on; and if it is not an agenda item, we will take your comments during the Open Comment period at the end of the meeting, and for that we would ask that you fill out a blue card. Regardless of the color of the card, each speaker will be allowed three minutes.

Let me lay out our opening schedule for this morning's events since we have some important things to cover. After the approval of the minutes, we'll move to our resolutions for Commute Solutions Month and honor some members of our TxDOT family. We'll then receive a report on the Texas Metropolitan Mobility Plan and hear some comments about that report from our Metroplex and Houston regions. Afterwards, we will break for a recess. And having said all that, we would also encourage you -- in fact, ask you to place your cell phones and pagers in the silent mode.

So let's begin with the approval of the minutes of our commission meeting in July.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

Mike, for agenda item 2, I will turn it to you.

MR. BEHRENS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

This morning, the next item we have on the agenda for your consideration is a resolution. This resolution is for ten agencies and organizations in the Houston-Galveston area that have formed a partnership to promote alternative transportation strategies in the eight-county ozone nonattainment area. The effort called "Commute Solutions...a Smarter Way to Work" will offer alternatives to commuters during the month of September, and we ask your consideration of the resolution before you commending this partnership for its work toward improving mobility and air quality in the Houston-Galveston area.

And before you consider that resolution, I think Mr. Alan Clark is here and wishes to address the commission.

MR. CLARK: Chairman Johnson and members of the commission and Director Behrens. Thank you very much for your consideration of this action. We do like to promote this in the fall of each year when people are reminded, as their children return to school and congestion picks up, that there are other choices they can make, and although in the past we have thought of this as a central program, thanks to TxDOT's help, it has continued to grow.

At the current time, not including people in car pools, we have over 4,000 participants in our Van Pool Program. And the average trip length for a van pool is quite long; round trip in a van pool averages about 65 miles, so that's somewhere -- if you're doing the math quickly in your head -- about 200,000 vehicle miles of travel on an average weekday. That's not quite the volume on the Katy Freeway or the Southwest Freeway, but would pick up most of the people that are traveling down 290 on a given day.

We also, with the help of our local governments, the Metro Transit Authority and TxDOT -- because this is a partnership program -- are looking to expand it greatly in the next three years. We're very appreciative of the help from the commission to move several major highway projects forward -- that's the good news. The bad news is they're all happening at once. And one thing we're trying to do with the Commute Solutions Program is not just double but triple the participation in that program, focused on the three major construction corridors of I-10, West Loop and US 59 during this next three-year window. And then working with our transit provider, we're going to also try to move this program partially into the private sector -- because government doesn't always do things the best and not always the quickest -- and look to try to make a real impact in these corridors during this critical time.

So we certainly thank you for your continued support, for your partnership that has made such a difference in our area.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Alan. Any questions of Alan?

Can we have a motion to approve the resolution?

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries. Thank you very much.

MR. CLARK: Thank you all.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you for your work.

MR. JOHNSON: At this time we would like to take a moment to recognize some incredibly dedicated people among hundreds who for decades have been as important to TxDOT's mission as durable pavement. As we honor those here today, we know that they are just the tip of the iceberg when we talk about individuals who are leaving the department this month through retirement. In the coming months, more retirees will follow. I am told so far that 660 have made this decision, and by one estimate, their departure represents the loss of some 17,000 years of experience. We wish each of these retirees the best in the coming months and years.

This commission has signed resolutions honoring a dozen TxDOT administrators who will be leaving us at the end of the month. Since our time today is limited, I can't read each of the resolutions, but by reading their names and their roles they have played in the department's history, I think all of you will be able to appreciate the extent of their service to this agency and to all Texans.

Burton Clifton, advanced planning director for the Fort Worth District is the first person I would like to mention because he fits into a very special category. He is retiring from TxDOT with more than 54 years of service. It's difficult to believe, but when he started his career, this agency was called the Highway Department and was barely 30 years old. On behalf of the commission, thank you, Burton, for more than a half century of dedication to TxDOT and to the people of Texas.

(Applause.)

MR. JOHNSON: And now by length of service I'd like to single out ten key TxDOT administrators who are retiring and are with us today:

William C. Garbade, district engineer from Austin, 39 years of service. Bill, if you'll come forward also.

Lawrence Zatopek, director of the General Services Division, 35 years of service.

Bruce Bayless, District Engineer, Yoakum, 35 years of service.

Walter Crook, District Engineer, Beaumont, 34 years of service.

Lonny G. Traweek, District Engineer, Bryan, 34 years of service.

Lawrance Smith, director of the Motor Carrier Division, 34 years of service.

James G. Freeman, District Engineer, Paris, 34 years of service.

John P. Kelly, District Engineer, San Antonio, 33 years of service.

Jay R. Nelson, District Engineer, Dallas, 31 years of service.

Paul E. Krugler, director of Research and Technology Implementation, 31 years of service.

In countless ways and through many, many transportation projects that make life better for Texans, these professionals truly have been leaders in their areas.

Finally, I'd like to recognize Ed Wueste, Assistant Executive Director for Border Trade Transportation. Ed is not retiring but will be leaving TxDOT at the end of the month.

For those of you who may not know, Ed has been instrumental in helping focus the department's attention on transportation issues along the Texas-Mexico border. He has been a key player in the development of international trade that benefits Texas and this nation.

Thank you, Ed, for all your hard work in this area so important to our state.

I planned to read Ed's resolution,_but I'm having a little bit of difficulty, and in keeping with our tradition with having our meetings as polished as possible, I probably need some assistance, so if Amadeo Saenz could come up here and please help out in this task, I would deeply appreciate it.

MR. SAENZ: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Ed, we thought it was fitting, since you are the border czar in charge of our border transportation, that your resolution should be in Spanish. I think that one is in English but we have a special one for you. Of course, I came up with this thing and then I got the assignment to have to read it, but we'd like to read your resolution as how it reads in Spanish, and we'll present that to you in a minute.

RESOLUCION

Considerando que, La Comision de Transportes de Texas siento mucho orgullo al reconocer a Ed Wueste, quien ha servido como sub-Director Ejecutivo para el comercio de transporte fronterizo; y

Considerando que, en el puesto actual desde mayo 1999, ha colaborado con los distritos de Pharr, Laredo y El Paso y con la Oficina de Relaciones Internacionales a fin de encontrar y dirigir recursos, para acelerar el desarrollo de proyectos comerciales fonterizos estrategicos de transporte; y

Considerando que, El Sr. Wueste presido al Grupo de Trabajo de Transportes de la Region Fronteriza (Border Region Transportation Task Force) para establecer las prioridades de TxDOT a lo largo de la frontera desde Brownsville hasta El Paso; y

Considerando que, El Sr. Wueste, antes de unirse con TxDOT, trabajo con la Administracion Federal de Carreteras (Federal Highway Administration-FHWA), y de 1995 hasta el 1999, actuo como Administrador Regional para la Region 6 (incluyendo Arkansas, Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma y Texas);y

Considerando que, El Sr. Wueste, durante su carrera de 38 anos con la FHWA (con misiones en Arizona, Arkansas, Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma, Washington, D.C., y Kuwait) adquirio vasta experiencia en el area de la planificacion estrategica del transporte y en la coordinacion entre agencias estatales, federales y dependencias gubernamentales extranjeras; y

Considerando que, El Sr. Wueste ha compartido con TxDOT la sabiduria y el ingenio que ha conseguido en cuatro decadas de experiencia profesional beneficiando los ciudadanos de Texas; y

Por consequente, sea resuelto que, la Comision de Transporte de Texas (Texas Transportation Commission), por la presente, ofrece sus mas sinceros deseos de buena suerte a Ed Wueste, en reconocimiento de sus logros profesionales en una carera de servicio leal al Estado de Texas y sus ciudadanos.

Presentado este dia, jueves, 28 de agosto, 2003.

Ed, that is your deal. Can you please open it up and let the people see it.

MR. JOHNSON: Either as engineers or administrators, all the individuals we honor today have had a big hand in making it easier and safer to move people and goods in Texas. In the process, they have made our state's roadways and other parts of our vast transportation system the envy of the nation. We recognize them today as they make way for those who follow -- those engineers and others who for decades to come will shape the future of transportation in Texas.

Please join me by standing and applauding them for their achievements and their outstanding loyalty to the people of Texas.

(Applause and general laughter and talking.)

MR. CLIFTON: I've enjoyed almost every minute of it, and so I enjoy saying sayonara now.

MR. GARBADE: We appreciate the recognition this morning, and to all the people around the state that I've had an opportunity to work with, this organization is about people. We may have been the face or the managers of this operation for so many years, but it's all those people out there in the field that have carried the ball for us and who have followed through with some of the bright ideas that we've come up with in time and they've made it all happen. And yes, as I said, I maybe have been the face and the name but I'd like to recognize all those people that helped us get here this far along today and to all the technicians, engineers, administrators and county and city officials, commissioners and all that made our job possible because without any of those other people, one individual can't make this thing happen.

MR. KRUGLER: I guess what I'd like to say is in reflecting, TxDOT is a great place to have a career, and for those out there, any that are looking for a career, I can certainly strongly, strongly recommend that.

In addition to all of the people, of course, that have helped make each of us successful, I'd like to certainly thank the administration for their support, and in my area, the research program. In many DOTs there's less recognition of the value that research has, and that we see our role as creating the future, really, of TxDOT operations and the key to cost-effective operations in the future, and they have recognized that and I appreciate that.

MR. ZATOPEK: As was stated before, it's the people in this agency that really make it the great place to work that it is, and everyone here does a fantastic job. I'm very proud of having been able to spend 35 years of my career here with TxDOT and I'll always remember the people that I've worked with here.

MR. BAYLESS: I think Bill covered it very well. Thank you and it's been fun, and this group has been fun to work with. Thank you.

MR. CROOK: Well, first of all, I'd like to thank each one of you that's here today with us, and I appreciate all the support that I've received over the years. As I look out on the audience, I can think of a lot of friendships that I've developed. Of course, there are a couple of people that I wish could be here today: number one, Franklin Young who hired me back in 1968; I see Mr. Oliver is here and I always appreciated his support when he was the executive director. And again, I just thank each one of you for the support that you've given me. It's been a pleasure; it's a great organization to work for; and what I'll miss most is all the friendships that have developed over the years. Thank you.

MR. TRAWEEK: All I want to say is that there's a lot of good people that work at TxDOT and that's why I've stayed here for so long. TxDOT has been my family and it always will be. Thanks.

MR. SMITH: Well, I couldn't make it through my own retirement the other day so I'm not sure I can do this, but I would like to say that TxDOT has been a great family environment for me. The only thing I think I'm really going to miss is the fact that looking at our current commission and looking at the current administration that's in place in TxDOT, there's so many future challenges that, man, I wish I was still 22 years old and had the opportunity to do it all over again. It's been great. Thanks to all of you and thanks to everybody at TxDOT.

MR. FREEMAN: It has been great. This place is unbelievable. It truly is a family and some of the people that we've worked with all these number of years has been great. I look around over this audience -- David Casteel is like a little brother. He's a great -- oh, I'm sorry, Jay, that bothers you --

(General laughter.)

MR. FREEMAN: But he truly is very dear to me; he's a fine, fine man. And I look at some of these other guys: Amadeo and Steve and Cathy and many of the people out here in the audience that we will miss working with. I think our commission, our executive director is second to none. It's right at the top and I think with the challenges that we've got coming it will be well handled, and after we saw that 68-mile-an-hour fastball, we may need a reliever but I know he can handle highway matters and legislative matters.

It's been great, I'm going to miss it, but I'm going to be doing something in this business for a long time yet, so thank you a lot.

MR. KELLY: Well, it's been a great ride -- that's all I can say. To come all the way from South Arkansas to South Texas has been quite a tour and I've really enjoyed every minute of it. I think Burt's right, there may be a time or two you don't enjoy, but most of the time I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I think TxDOT is a wonderful place to work, an outstanding agency that's just unique among state agencies, I think, across the country.

There's a lot of exciting things coming up ahead in the future, I think, with all the changes the legislature made this spring. There's going to be some wonderful new challenges and opportunities for TxDOT, and I certainly want to continue to be active and involved in that in the future, but I just want to thank everyone that was supportive of me during my career here, and look forward to continuing to work with you. I think it's a great place to be, and just can't say enough about how much I've enjoyed my tenure here.

MR. NELSON: Thank you, John.

One of the things that John didn't mention in part of his travels from South Arkansas to South Texas came through Dallas and North Central Expressway. If you haven't been up there, you can see some of John's work that he's done up there.

Commissioner Johnson, Commission Members Williamson and Nichols, I want to thank you. You sent me a letter the other day that thanked me for 30 years of meritorious service, and I actually had 31 -- I want to know which one was the bad year -- hope it wasn't recently.

(General laughter.)

MR. NELSON: Let me talk from the North Texas perspective as I think I can do that best, and there's 5.5 million people or so in North Texas now -- the Dallas-Fort Worth area -- and I would say that well over 5.4 million of them love TxDOT. There's a few that don't want us to put something in their backyard, and that's to be expected, people have their opinions, but we have some great support in North Texas, great advocates. That makes my job easier and has since I've been in the Dallas District, and that's what makes the world go round. It's the people that are willing to work with you and make things happen.

I appreciate the support that you've given me in Dallas, and all this group here, this is a fine group, let me tell you, there's no doubt about it. There's a lot of integrity in this group as there is in this room. So I thank you for the opportunity to be in Dallas and I appreciate your support. Thank you so much.

MR. WUESTE: I'm not sure why I'm even up here; I don't deserve to be up here with this group. This is a great, great group of folks that are leaving, but the good news about it -- in the short time I've been with the department -- is that I've been able to observe there's a lot of people that are out there waiting to move into their positions and other positions. So this is a great organization and it always will be, and it's blessed with outstanding people.

I've only been around four years and four months, but I was with federal highways for a number of years before that, and I'm not blowing smoke, but this would have to be the highlight of my career. It's been a wonderful opportunity and I just thank the administration and the commission for giving me the opportunity to participate like I have over these past few years.

I would have said all of this in Spanish but Steve doesn't understand it that well, so with due respect to Steve, that's why I decided to do the English bit. But thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to be a part of the TxDOT family, and I certainly feel that I'm leaving here as a part of that family. So thank you very much.

MR. JOHNSON: I want all of you to know how deeply appreciative, not only the members of the commission but the entire department, the State government and the citizens of the state are for the contributions that each of you made, uniquely and individually, but also as part of a great team.

I don't want you to try to sneak out and think your duty is done. After we have our next agenda item, we're going to take a brief recess and we're going to do some pictures. So if you're absent, you'll be conspicuously absent.

(General laughter.)

MR. JOHNSON: Ric or Robert, did you have anything that you wanted to add?

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you. Job well done.

MR. NICHOLS: Yes. Absolutely.

(Applause.)

MR. JOHNSON: Our next agenda item is item number 3, and to present that is our district engineer who represents one of the state's most popular vacation spots, and that's Corpus Christi and the South Padre Island area, David Casteel.

David, welcome. We're glad you're here.

MR. CASTEEL: Thank you, sir. And for the record, again, my name is David Casteel and I work for you in the Corpus Christi District as the engineer there.

And thank you, Mr. Freeman. I always thought you were my grandpa, but that's okay.

(General laughter.)

MR. CASTEEL: I'm here today to ask you to consider a minute order to adopt the Texas Metropolitan Mobility Plan as a blueprint for how TxDOT and the metropolitan areas of our great state can work together to better address congestion.

More than 12.4 million people, 60 percent of all Texans, live in the state's eight largest metropolitan areas. Congestion in the metropolitan areas cost the state $45 billion in terms of delay and wasted fuel between 1990 and 2000. In March of this year, Governor Perry sent a letter to Commissioner Johnson asking TxDOT to develop a plan to help our urban areas reduce the congestion that negatively impacts the everyday quality of life for our many metropolitan citizens.

Mr. Behrens, our executive director, immediately formed a working group of district engineers, planners and key highway administration partners in response to the governor's request. The group worked under the leadership of Steve Simmons, Deputy Executive Director, and some of that group are here today. I know Maribel Chavez is here, Jay Nelson, Jim Randall, and Ed Wueste helped us on that group.

The group used as guidelines for our work the Trans-Texas Corridor Plan, and the commission's own Texas Transportation Partnerships as well as the excellent work of the Governor's Business Council Transportation Task Force, to draft a strategic plan, a framework for reducing congestion. The plan presented today was coordinated with more than 25 partners outside of TxDOT in meetings that began last spring and continued into early summer. These many partners, elected officials, MPOs, and transportation interest groups were integral to producing the plan we present today.

The Metropolitan Mobility Plan presented today for your consideration is a strategic plan enabling a philosophical change in the way we as a state will attack congestion. The plan, if adopted, will change the way Texas plans, funds and delivers transportation improvements in our big metro areas. It will take advantage of recent innovations resulting from House Bill 3588 and will increase local control and decision-making authority. Today we calculate the amount of money we have and then piecemeal-construct with those limited funds. Under this plan we will first determine what is needed to really address congestion and then forthrightly and cooperatively work towards meeting the needs of urban Texas.

We will look at congestion in terms of personal and freight mobility across all modes of transportation with a measurement tool called the Texas Congestion Index. The index is being developed jointly by a team of MPO and TxDOT experts with Texas A&M University researchers assisting. With this index we will be able to report to the citizens of Texas the impact of congestion today and our future progress in improving the urban quality of life.

Next we will use all available funding and we will improve the ability of metropolitan areas to forecast TxDOT funding. In this plan we recognize the important step taken by the legislature in securing the Texas Mobility Fund to add new money to our attack on congestion.

It is important to understand that the plan also recommends that TxDOT shift from funding projects one at a time to a regional distribution of a predictable amount of funding that is based on population, traffic, and other factors. This shift improves the ability of the metro areas to plan for projects and was the unanimous recommendation of a joint metropolitan-MPO-TxDOT task force that met this past year.

The plan recognizes that the Texas Mobility Fund and the regionally distributed TxDOT funds will not be sufficient to address the needs of many Texas metro areas. As such, the plan encourages local decision-makers to develop user paid funds to fill the gap between transportation needs and available funding. These user paid gap funds would be developed for local use and local control to address congestion. Certainly toll initiatives will be one way to develop such funds but it is anticipated that other methods may be developed by the local areas.

Either way, it will be a local decision for local use, and the plan makes it explicit that the distributed TxDOT funds would not be reduced for those areas that develop gap funding initiatives. The plan also encourages public-private partnerships and fast-track contracting to rapidly deliver the projects that reduce congestion.

The many partners that we have worked with from our metropolitan areas and those technical experts and our MPOs have expressed support for this strategic plan. We continue to meet with the MPOs from our metro areas to ferret out the details and apply the philosophies of the plan. This is going well. Michael Morris from North Texas Council of Governments, Alan Clark from the Houston-Galveston Area Council, Michael Aulick from CAMPO, and Joanne Walsh of the San Antonio MPO have been outstanding proponents of change and have helped us with this plan and influenced it greatly.

On behalf of our working group and our many transportation partners, I ask you to consider adopting the minute order before you and adopt the Metropolitan Mobility Plan and thereby encourage, in partnership with the eight metropolitan areas, to implement the plan and attack congestion. And in deference to my division director colleagues, staff recommends concurrence. Are there any questions?

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, David.

Do you, Ric or Robert, have any questions of David right now?

MR. NICHOLS: No.

MR. JOHNSON: We have several who have asked to speak on this agenda item. There being no questions, the first speaker, Roger Baker from here in Austin. Mr. Baker, we're delighted you could be with us this morning.

MR. BAKER: Good morning. I had a chance to read the plan and the thing about the Metropolitan Mobility Plan that has struck me as most significant is TxDOT's advice to urban area MPOs to shift to planning on the basis of travel demands as opposed to financial constraints. This shift in policy is being advocated even though financially constrained planning by MPOs is required under federal law. The new policy is being advocated in the context of TxDOT's widely publicized inability to keep up with current transportation-funding demands.

TxDOT seems to be advising local government to take over trying to build what TxDOT can no longer afford to build by itself by means of a new deficit spending approach, using Proposition 14, regional mobility authorities and new toll road bonding authority. I think this proposed policy of shifting road-building shortfalls from the state level to the local level should be considered to be a risky stopgap rather than a prudent public policy.

California has had notably bad experiences with toll roads as a solution to their own shortfalls. I understand a county toll road in the Houston area is already in trouble because it is linked to an expansion of the Katy Freeway that is over budget and behind schedule. These problems can be attributed largely to bad timing and over-optimistic revenue and growth projections.

Beyond these risks -- which are a matter of public record -- the biggest current risk facing deficit financing of roads, in my opinion, is an impending peak in world oil production. Everyone knows world oil production must peak at some point but more and more credible energy experts think a peak in world oil production will occur before the toll road bonds are likely to be paid off. Houston energy banker Matthew Simmons is one of Bush's energy advisors, a Harvard Business School graduate and CEO for one of the world's largest energy exploration banks. Mr. Simmons has access to some of the best international oil and gas production data and he concludes, on the basis of Saudi production data, that world oil production is likely to have already peaked in the year 2000. If he is right, then the fuel that powers nearly all of the world's transportation will become more scarce and costly from now on.

I'm appearing before you so that the record will indicate that you were clearly warned of the danger of advocating local deficit spending on transportation projects that encourage further dependence on increasingly precarious supplies of petroleum energy. And I have a few handouts that I have prepared and I'll give them to you. And I would be happy to answer any questions you might have.

MR. JOHNSON: Any questions or observations? I have two thoughts that enter my mind. I don't think there's anything in this document that encourages deficit spending. It certainly will not happen at the state level because we have a prohibition against it. And secondly -- and I hope Judge Eckels will address this -- I'm not aware of any of the toll features in Harris County that are struggling to meet their obligations. In fact, they're running at quite a positive cash flow after debt service and maintenance, so much, in fact, that I believe there are funds to continue to expand the system. I think you're a little bit misguided in those two observations.

Robert, did you have anything?

MR. NICHOLS: No.

MR. JOHNSON: Ric?

MR. WILLIAMSON: No. Thank you.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you for being here, Mr. Baker, and your comments will be a part of the record.

MR. BAKER: I would like to say that I got the information on the Houston problems from an article in the Houston Chronicle about three weeks ago. Thank you.

MR. JOHNSON: The next speaker is Michael Stevens who is chairman of the Transportation Task Force of the Governor's Business Council.

MR. STEVENS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, commissioners.

First is the Governor's Business Council is an entity that includes the chief executive officers of the major corporations in Texas. We would like to commend the department on the creation and recommendation of the Texas Metropolitan Mobility Plan. Our assessment -- contrary to the prior speaker's -- is that TxDOT in funding for transportation has been hampered by the component of using gasoline tax as a major method in its pay per gallon as opposed to inflation. Therefore, the department has been continuously under pressure from inflating construction costs, yet at the same time it does not have the benefit of increased inflationary revenues.

And we believe that this plan that is being put forward in front of you, the Texas Metropolitan Mobility Plan, addresses two things. One is it accomplishes something that was also mentioned earlier. The biggest thing we saw in our assessment of the systems throughout the United States and throughout Texas was the failure to have nonfiscally restrained planning. The issues that we saw virtually everywhere where the federal government poses a requirement that you plan based upon anticipated revenues versus anticipated growth, and this plan makes that fundamental leap forward. It basically allows you -- like we would our business -- to plan in the future, to determine what your needs are in the future, and to have a plan to accomplish the required construction that would achieve that.

Effectively, it also focuses on congestion reduction which we believe to be the major component. Ninety percent of all the people in the next 25 years are anticipated moving into the total urban areas in the state. This plan addresses the importance of that, the massive movement of people into the urban areas, and addresses a plan to project what that movement will be, what its impact on congestion will be, as well as the benefits associated with a clear plan.

Our assessment -- contrary again to other people's communication -- is that if we fail to address the transportation, if we fail to reduce congestion, the cost of not reducing congestion, the benefits of moving from the current 1.3 congestion index in this state down to a 1.15 congestion index in this state -- which is the opportunity we have under the Texas Metropolitan Mobility Plan -- will save the state -- it may cost $78 billion to construct the additional roads but it will save over $500 billion for the individuals within the state.

Almost half of that or more than half of that will be gasoline savings; $300-plus billion will be savings of manpower sitting on streets and roads waiting in traffic that they would not have to wait in otherwise; close to $200 billion of that is improved productivity, moving goods and services through peak periods of times at a pace that will save money and allow goods and services to be delivered to these areas. Each of those things have a massive impact so the cost of spending, the cost of good planning, the cost of nonfiscally restrained evaluation of the system allows you to consider spending more in places that save massive amounts to the state and to the citizens of the state.

So we commend you. We think it's the number one thing, in our opinion, that's been done to really focus on the urban transportation issue where people are going to be, where the populations are exploding, and it gives the state a wonderful opportunity to continue to grow in the way it has in the past.

So our compliments to you and our appreciation for the commitment. We'd also like to say Steve Simmons being appointed the deputy executive director, who has a focus now on these urban issues, has been really a wonderful thing.

And I'll take it down to a more personal level. In the city of Houston we are working on a 100 percent solution, as well, a plan, and we're dovetailing that plan with the state's mobility target, this Metropolitan Mobility Plan. It's working very, very well; TxDOT has cooperated enormously. So we're working thoroughfares and other local off-system roads and methods of moving around, combined with the state looking at the intersections, and it's a very, very positive process. I've heard a lot of compliments. And so it's not just working at the level of producing a report, it's working at the grassroots level of producing a plan that we'll cost out and we'll implement in Houston to reduce congestion.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Michael.

Questions?

MR. NICHOLS: It's not a question, a comment. I just wanted to publicly thank you for the work that you've done on this, on the task force. I know in working with you on transportation you've become a very strong transportation advocate, and I think you originally, my experience, were interested in the Houston area and as you worked toward solving transportation problems in your area and understanding, that you realized it's a statewide problem, and because of that and your interest in working with all the metros and us, I think you've made a major contribution toward that, and I appreciate it.

MR. STEVENS: Well, thank you very much. When I recognized that two-thirds of the trips are handled in each one of these major urban areas on the state's TxDOT system, you have to recognize that failure to solve that problem will absolutely destroy the local urban area, and we appreciate your focus on recognizing that as well. Thank you.

MR. JOHNSON: Collin County Judge Ron Harris on behalf of the Texas Urban Transportation Alliance.

JUDGE HARRIS: Well, thank you, and before I begin I would like to take a couple of seconds for personal thank you to Jane Ellison, specifically, and to John Kelly for his work, as Jay said, on the North Central project. You've heard me good-naturedly refer to "We Love Jay Nelson." Well, I assure you, our area does. He has epitomized what I think this urban mobility plan is putting in writing and that is the long-standing partnerships with TxDOT, and Jay has been right there fighting and working with us to improve mobility in North Texas, and we certainly appreciate it.

We at the Texas Urban Transportation Alliance -- and we really would, I think, like to find a better moniker because when you talk about that in abbreviated form, it's called TUTA. It's a great way to break up a serious conversation by talking about TUTA.

(General laughter.)

JUDGE HARRIS: But the formation of this group was to bring together a focus on the urban areas of Texas which represent well over 60 percent of the state's population, and most likely, I think the numbers I have is over 70 percent of the economic generators. We also have as one of our goals to raise the level for all parts of Texas. I want to be sure we dispel, if there are any out there, any thoughts that this is a money grab operation. It is not.

We feel all parts of Texas are important; we feel that the economy of the state is important for connectivity; and simply, if we only focused on the urban areas and didn't connect us all up -- former Mayor Bob Bolen of Fort Worth has always said it best, and I've quoted him many times -- that we, for instance, in Collin County could have the absolutely best roads that money could buy, all superhighways, six, four lanes, eight lanes whatever you need to move traffic with a congestion index of maybe below 1, but if we don't connect to the next county, to the next county, to the next county, it's a worthless system from a quality of life and from a business standpoint.

So Texas Urban Transportation Alliance did form and one of its specific goals, other than raising the revenue stream for projects and to improve on the partnership, was specifically to set in motion a plan to work on the metro and the metropolitan urban needs and we think this plan will do it. Like I said, I really believe, in looking at it and even talking about the gap which could be construed a number of ways, but I think we've been working on a gap for a number of years and the gap has always resulted in partnerships either through local bonds with TxDOT or even the NTTA in our area and HCTRA in Houston in coming together to solve transportation.

So I think with your passage of this it will formalize and give us a blueprint, and we certainly again appreciate your interest and support of this in the urban areas of Texas. At this time -- before I give Commissioner Williamson any time to ask me a question -- I'd like to recognize County Judge Robert Eckels from the Alliance. Thank you very much.

JUDGE ECKELS: I would love to come up and not give Commissioner Williamson the time to ask questions of my Collin County colleague if he wants to.

MR. WILLIAMSON: We've got a lot of time today.

JUDGE ECKELS: Lots of time. I don't want to eat into the photo opportunities for the retirees, but I would like to again, as Ron did, congratulate the retirees that are here today and thank them and all the employees of TxDOT for the work that they do for the people of Texas. And as Ric and I served in the legislature, I always supported TxDOT but never really fully appreciated the work they do until I was in the trenches with them building projects and partnerships with TxDOT, and I do really appreciate the work that you do not only in Austin but around the state, particularly in Harris County and Houston, and I work with Gary Trietsch, our district engineer there.

But throughout your organization it's been a wonderful experience, and it carries through to the commission, and we're here again today to thank you for your commitment to congestion relief in urban Texas, and we worked very hard together this session to build a consensus on transportation and a mobility plan for all of Texas, as Ron mentioned. Recognizing the needs of the rural and urban interests in Texas and the potential for the Trans-Texas Corridor, we were able to work together to build support for the most comprehensive transportation bill in the history of this great state.

Commissioner Williamson and I were talking before this meeting and he eloquently pointed out to me that you had given us everything we asked for and we were here to ask for more. The fact is you have worked very well with us to make sure that we didn't ask for something that you could not do.

As we go through this, too, I would correct any misconceptions that might have been raised from some of the earlier comments that the Harris County toll road system, as we get into the things that we can do, is very strong and viable; its financial condition is very strong. We are going to continue to build and expand the system and it is a great example of how we can continue to build partnerships with TxDOT, work together.

The Katy Freeway project is one of those which is a great example of the way that we can come together and build more than either one of us could do on our own. We think the financial projections that we originally have done on that will remain in play and that it will continue to be a strong partnership. We may, as we invest more money in more TxDOT projects, look for a greater role in the management of these projects, but we really enjoy working with Gary and appreciate the professionalism that he brings to the table.

You have kept your commitment, though, as we have built this plan to all Texans. With this Texas Metropolitan Mobility Plan, to this unprecedented coalition of urban interests that have come together to help work with you to build economic engines that will provide prosperity and jobs for future generations of Texans.

We are here today to ask you to continue that commitment and to adopt a minute order to direct not less than two-thirds of the Texas Mobility Fund towards implementing the Texas Metropolitan Mobility Plan as well as the other items we have discussed as we were building this coalition to pass the bill. Assuming the passage of Prop. 14 this year, we would similarly urge you to commit two-thirds of the bond proceeds, at a minimum, to this Metropolitan Mobility Plan as well.

We do want to thank you for your efforts to improve the mobility for all Texans and your consideration of our request as well as your continued willingness to work with us on this and other projects for Texas. Commissioner?

MR. JOHNSON: Questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: Just a couple of things we need to talk about, Robert. Mr. Baker, I think it was, very steadily and consistently laid out in the record that we should be concerned about continuing to spend money to build infrastructure for the internal combustion machine -- I guess that was his point -- and I think it's a valid concern, but his attempt to link our decision to build toll projects with deficit spending causes me to have this dialogue with you because since he's laying things in the record, we need to lay things in the record as well.

Is it the case that if the price of oil went through the roof and the price of gasoline went up and the number of miles traveled then go down, is it not the case, as a former legislator, that you and I would probably conclude the inevitable result of that is that we would raise the tax on gasoline or we would institute tolls in order to generate the money necessary to maintain the system?

JUDGE ECKELS: Yes, we would.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I mean, there's not any way around that.

JUDGE ECKELS: The system will have to be maintained and there's only two places to get the money: either through taxes or through user fees such as the vehicle registration, motor fuels taxes, types of user fees or the direct user fees such as tolls, and we would maintain the system at some cost and it would be a part of the cost of transportation.

MR. JOHNSON: One way or the other. So for the record, there's no way we can get around that.

JUDGE ECKELS: There would be no deficit, it would have to be funded, the bondholders would be at risk if the toll road started to fail -- there is a very limited general fund liability but that would be paid for by taxes as well on the toll road system and the risk on that is to the bondholders generally as opposed to a deficit for the state or the county.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So the reality is -- and we respect and in many ways, Mr. Baker, uplift your position; we understand it very much, but in reality we are frequently in our state compared to such states as California -- Mr. Simmons mentioned that -- and everyone always points out California's toll roads are having problems and so on and so forth. The difference between Texas, and I guess to a lesser extent, probably Florida, and the other 13 urban industrial states is that we are the only two whose populations are exploding through the ceiling and the other 13 are stable or actually declining in population. So we really don't have much choice but to invest in some sort of transportation infrastructure. Our population is growing, that's all there is to it.

JUDGE ECKELS: And Commissioner, the steps you have taken today and the steps we hope you will take to codify that two-thirds commitment through a minute order process, will ensure that we will be able to continue that into the future. And we thank you for your work.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you.

MR. JOHNSON: Robert, did you have anything?

MR. NICHOLS: I didn't have any questions, I had some comments at some point.

JUDGE ECKELS: We want to let you get on with your business. We hope you'll adopt this order.

MR. WILLIAMSON: We probably are not through with you or Ron.

Do you want a shot at Robert before we get Ron back up here? Do you want to talk with Judge Eckels before we get Judge Harris up here?

MR. NICHOLS: No. I appreciate the work that all of you have done. To me the whole thing is a monumental shift, philosophically, in the way that we have done business in the past. Like I said, I don't really have any questions, but there's a couple of other things I think might be important to put on the record.

The comment, I think earlier concerned about we are required under federal mandate to have a fiscally restrained plan which we do and we will, and we will lay our money out in a fiscally restrained manner. I think philosophically one of the problems has been -- and I think Michael Stevens pointed it out early and I think all of you concluded together -- is that in doing that we have failed in the past to identify dollar-wise what is really needed. It is not fiscally restrained; in other words, what do we really need to get the congestion index down to a reasonable level in all modes of transportation, and that is a big difference.

This will allow us to identify the first yet still stay within the second and be fiscally responsible, but it will allow each area of the state to see, really for the first time -- I know there's a lot of different kinds of estimates around -- what money really will be required to get those areas to a reasonable level.

And I think the second philosophical -- and I'm using that term because David Casteel used that term in his opening remarks and I agree with it -- the second major change is that for the first time we're going to be working toward identifying a stream of funds for each of the metros that they can have a predictable planning period on and local input to help prioritize those projects, and know that as they work toward -- whether it be locally or with us or whatever -- solving their problem that if they have made good improvements, that they are not penalized funding-wise -- which I know has been a big concern -- and in effect there are almost incentives out there to do that. That way if you solve your problem, you're not going to be penalized on your future funding, and I think that's real important.

So there's some really big changes in this blueprint.

JUDGE ECKELS: Commissioner, we think there will be tremendous opportunities to work together, particularly in building partnerships, and as we look at mobility, not just the TxDOT system but the off-system needs as well and how we can plug our plans in with your plans. We're doing the exact same project at our MPO through the Houston-Galveston Area Council today to build both the 100 percent solution that is not financially constrained as well as the fiscally constrained plan which we are required to do under federal law.

MR. NICHOLS: Anyway, that's the only comments I had to make. I think it's great.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Can Judge Harris come back up? Is that okay, Mr. Chairman?

MR. JOHNSON: Yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I would ask this of David when the time comes, but I wanted to ask of the two judges of the three most urbanized counties in the state you clearly understand that the commission's path, at the direction of the governor, is to regionalize the funding and say to Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston-Galveston-Beaumont, hopefully San Antonio-Victoria, Austin-Georgetown: The more you choose local sources of funds, whether that's local taxes or local tolls, the more money will be invested in your community; you will not be penalized for being aggressive with local funding. You both clearly understand that?

JUDGE HARRIS: Well, again -- in fact, we were talking about it last night and I've already done an e-mail for discussion at the DRMC this coming Friday about that topic -- and I think you will find us very appreciative that we finally over time got to this point because that has been one of the nagging concerns from our meeting the other day.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Right now our largest metros, Mr. Chairman, are of course Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston-Galveston-Beaumont, but there are other growing metros in the state -- San Antonio comes to mind, the Austin-Georgetown-Waco-Temple corridor comes to mind -- that within 10 or 15 years will be in the same relative position, and the thought process for us has been don't penalize but rather reward the decision locally to invest in transportation infrastructure as partners with us, the more aggressive we are in San Antonio, in Austin, in Georgetown, in Temple, in Victoria, in Corpus Christi, El Paso, Brownsville, Edinburg, so on, the more those communities uplift and strengthen their own transportation infrastructure, they don't hurt themselves. That's clearly the thrust of the governor's instruction about the metros. Both of you would concur with that?

JUDGE HARRIS: Yes, sir, and support it, absolutely.

MR. WILLIAMSON: And in fact, you or I might not like public transit, you or I might not believe that investment in public transit relieves congestion and addresses the congestion index, but others might think that, and this plan just kind of lays the groundwork for each individual metro area to begin to decide if a more aggressive investment in public transit is the solution they prefer, whereas in our area we may want to be more aggressive with pass-through freeways to get people and traffic moving, but this plan takes that into account.

JUDGE HARRIS: And I think another piece that's very important that we've certainly talked about, and we look forward to working with TxDOT, is the development of a real working strategic plan because that -- again as our conversations have been with the four mayors and four judges the other day -- we need to really understand what alternatives.

Before we get to a business plan we need to understand feasibility and alternatives, then to pick the alternatives and work toward them as partners, and I think that strategic plan for the state, as you said, Commissioner, that it's needs-based instead of financially constrained hopefully will really bring the problem to the forefront because it is going to impact Texas. And my biggest concern is what we're leaving -- we're worried about no new taxes today but what are we leaving -- and so I hope this plan and our work together can show that we're leaving it in good shape.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Speaking for myself and at the request of the governor, I want to tell you that the legislative leadership and the governor's leadership on transportation could not have been successful without the help of you two and your council of leadership, Michael Stevens and the private sector people who contributed. We spent a lot of time in the last 90 days talking about how important House Bill 3588 and other legislation, the public transit legislation, the HHSC legislation, is to the state. I guess maybe we've spent a lot of time talking to ourselves and maybe we haven't done as good a job talking to the public about it, but the legislation that you helped pass, the metro plan that the governor asked us to create and our employees have created, these are monumental steps in the future for transportation in this state, and you've been a very important part of it, and I personally appreciate it very much.

JUDGE HARRIS: And I think you mentioned the other individual that it's been my privilege to get to know, and that is Michael Stevens and his work through the Governor's Business Council, giving input to the governor from the business community, and I have seen the tremendous impact of that relationship. And we appreciate Michael for him taking the time out of his private earning-a-living business to do that.

MR. WILLIAMSON: One problem with Michael is he's just not aggressive enough.

JUDGE ECKELS: He's afraid to tell you what he really thinks.

(General laughter.)

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you. Any questions or observations for David Casteel?

MR. WILLIAMSON: Oh, yes, we're not through with David.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you. David, if you'll return.

Thank you, Robert.

JUDGE ECKELS: We thank you very much; appreciate your work, and look forward to continuing to build not only on the legislation we've passed but --

MR. WILLIAMSON: Are you going to say it three times, the commitment of the money, because you've already said it twice.

JUDGE ECKELS: One more time, Commissioner, we want that continuous revenue stream coming in and we know that commitment is there. Thank you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Good man, said it three times.

David, for the record I want to ask this question. This is, again, getting back to Mr. Baker's comments for the record. The plan not only anticipates -- the plan not only opens the door but anticipates that public transit will be an important component of the Metropolitan Mobility Plan of this state. Yes or no?

MR. CASTEEL: Yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: And the legislation passed -- primarily House Bill 3588, but I think perhaps 2282 also -- actually provides the tools for the metro areas to begin to finance and construct public transit facilities in ways that have never been possible before.

MR. CASTEEL: Absolutely.

MR. WILLIAMSON: And this plan allows that to advance.

MR. CASTEEL: Yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So it can reasonably be said that if Mr. Baker's concerns -- and there are many in the state that share his concerns -- are accurate, the truth is what we've chosen to do actually moves us further down the bike path, railroad track or road towards a robust public transit system in concert with a personal vehicle system.

MR. CASTEEL: Yes, sir. In fact, the plan gives specific examples of where those might be applicable in the future.

MR. WILLIAMSON: It might not be possible to have good dependable rail in Houston if we don't begin to offer these kinds of tools to the Houston area.

MR. CASTEEL: Yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

MR. JOHNSON: Did you have anything?

MR. NICHOLS: No.

MR. JOHNSON: Well, we'll consider a motion to accept and authorize the implementation of the Texas Metropolitan Mobility Plan.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I so move.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Good job, David.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, David, very much. You and your committee have done stellar work.

We will take a brief recess so that we can have some pictures made with our retirees and also allow the media if they have any questions about what we've done thus far.

(Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.)

MR. JOHNSON: We will reconvene the meeting.

Let me once again remind everyone of the importance of registering with our staff in the lobby if you'd like to address the commission. They will assist you in filling out the appropriate cards.

With that, Mr. Behrens, we shall continue with the rest of the agenda.

MR. BEHRENS: We'll go to item 4, our proposed rules for adoption, and we have the rule at 4(a)(1) and we're going to defer that rule until next month, so we'll go to 4(a)(2), we have rules for proposed adoption in our Vehicle Titles and Registration. Jerry?

MR. DIKE: Commission members, my name is Jerry Dike, division director of the Vehicle Titles and Registration Division.

This minute order proposes adoption of amendments to Rule 17.22 on Motor Vehicle Registration. It incorporates several statutory changes enacted by the 78th Legislature, including the exemption of electrical personal assistive mobility devices, commonly known as Segways, from the need for registration, it changes terminology for salvage and nonrepairable vehicle titles, and clarifies our department's authority to reject or not issue objectionable personalized license plates. And we recommend adopting these proposed rules.

MR. JOHNSON: Any questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: I have one of Mr. Behrens. May I have your permission to embarrass him again? No, I'm just kidding. So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, sir, and thank you, Ric.

MR. WILLIAMSON: That would have been three months in a row.

MR. BEHRENS: Item 4(a)(3) is proposed rules on logo signing.

MR. LOPEZ: Good morning, commissioners. My name is Carlos Lopez and I'm director of the Traffic Operations Division.

The minute order before you implements a portion of House Bill 3330 passed by the 78th Legislature. House Bill 3330 adds language to the Transportation Code modifying the existing definition of "eligible highway" for the Texas Logo Sign Program. This proposed change in the program mirrors the language used in the bill and makes controlled access highways in urbanized areas of 50,000 population or more eligible. Currently logo signs may be placed in these areas only through the variance process. We recommend approval of this minute order.

MR. JOHNSON: Any questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. BEHRENS: Our rules for final adoption, item 4(b)(1) has rules in our Management area. Richard?

MR. MONROE: Thank you. For the record, my name is Richard Monroe. I'm general counsel for the department.

The minute order before you is to obtain commission final approval of certain rules addressing our statutory advisory committees. These rules were made necessary by changes in the law applicable to these committees which was part of House Bill 3588. The rules have been duly published, as required by law, in the Texas Register; no comments were received -- which, frankly, surprised me a little bit but there were none -- and I would urge that they be adopted.

MR. JOHNSON: Any questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. MONROE: Thank you.

MR. BEHRENS: Item 4(b)(2) is final adoption of rules on our Trans-Texas Corridor.

MR. SAENZ: Good morning, commissioners. For the record, I'm Amadeo Saenz, Jr., Assistant Executive Director for Engineering Operations.

The rules before you for final adoption relate to comprehensive development agreements for planning, financing, construction and operation of facilities on the Trans-Texas Corridor or TxDOT turnpike projects. These rules are in response to House Bill 3588 and new Chapter 227 of the Transportation Code. The rules provide, in essence, the procedures for development and construction applicable to projects under Chapter 361 of the Transportation Code and would be applicable also to the Trans-Texas Corridor and department turnpike projects.

The rules have been published for public comment according to the requirements in Texas law and are now ready for final adoption. Only one comment was received, it has been addressed in our rules, and we would therefore recommend final approval.

MR. WILLIAMSON: What was the nature of the comment, Amadeo?

MR. SAENZ: The comment had to do, sir, that we had one comment where the commentees were requesting that our proposed rules require that all the environmental process and permitting had to be complete prior to the design beginning on a project, and the comment said that that could be done before the design -- that design could start before we had the final approval of all the NEPA process and the permits. We agree that the NEPA process has to be complete before design starts, but the permitting can be done while that, so we modified our rules to allow that design can start after NEPA and the permitting can be done and completed before construction starts.

MR. WILLIAMSON: And the NEPA requirements, those are federal regulatory requirements. Correct?

MR. SAENZ: Yes, sir, that is correct.

MR. WILLIAMSON: What happens if the federal government changes its regulatory requirements and allows permitting and design contracts simultaneous with the NEPA process?

MR. SAENZ: Well, we can come back and amend our rules and move forward.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Is that not a focus of part of our federal legislative effort this year?

MR. SAENZ: Yes, sir, we are currently working in Washington trying to get that very change.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. BEHRENS: Item 4(b)(3) is the final adoption of rules that also pertain to our logo sign program.

MR. LOPEZ: Good morning again, commissioners. For the record, I'm Carlos Lopez, director of the Traffic Operations Division.

The minute order before you implements Section 1 of House Bill 2905 of the 78th Legislature, better known as the Mike Behrens Relief Act.

(General laughter.)

MR. LOPEZ: State law directs the commission to authorize the executive director to approve or deny variances for certain eligibility requirements of the department's logo sign program. House Bill 2905 allows approval or denial of these variances to be delegated to the executive director's designee. This amendment will allow for this delegation.

This item was published in the July 11 edition of the Texas Register and no comments were received. We recommend approval of the minute order.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Carlos, is it my understanding that in the minute order Mr. Behrens went ahead and delegated that authority to Mr. Johnson?

MR. LOPEZ: It didn't say anything about upward delegation.

(General laughter.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Although we will have a minute order to do that if I ever see that Houston Astros clip again.

(General laughter.)

MR. BEHRENS: Moving to item 5, Aviation. Item 5(a) is to approve funding for our airport improvement projects.

MR. FULTON: For the record, my name is David Fulton, director of the TxDOT Aviation Division.

This minute order contains a request for grant-funding approval for 45 airport improvement projects. The total estimated cost of all requests, as shown in Exhibit A, is approximately $19.4 million, $15.6- federal, $1.9- state, and $1.9- in local funding. A public hearing was held on August 11 of this year. Responses have been made to comments received. We recommend approval of this minute order.

MR. JOHNSON: We have several people who have asked to speak on this matter. Cynthia Kaminsky?

MS. KAMINSKY: I thank you for the opportunity to address you on the agenda item concerning approval of federal airport improvement funds for the McKinney Municipal Airport.

During previous meetings, one of the conditions of approval from this commission was the fact of no open formal complaints against the airport. I am informing you today that there is an open formal Part 16 complaint against the McKinney Municipal Airport currently undergoing review in the FAA's Office of the Chief Counsel in Washington, D.C. The basis of the complaint is as follows:

In order for an airport to continue to receive federal funding, it must demonstrate that it is in continued compliance with FAA federal grant assurances. The current Part 16 complaint states violations of five different federal grant assurances. I will be focusing on two.

One, grant assurance 19, Airport Operations and Maintenance which states that airports receiving federal funds "shall be operated at all times in a safe and serviceable condition and in accordance with the minimum standards" and that the airport sponsor -- in this case, the City of McKinney -- "will not cause or permit any activity or action thereon which would interfere with its use for airport purposes."

Two, grant assurance 20, Hazard Removal and Mitigation which states the airport sponsor -- the City of McKinney here -- will take appropriate action to assure such terminal airspace as is required to protect instrument and visual operations to the airport are cleared and protected and that it will mitigate existing airport hazards and prevent future airport hazards.

In a July 26, 2000, letter stating a director's decision on remand from FAA's David Bennett, director of Airport Safety and Standards, the City of McKinney and the McKinney Municipal Airport were found to be in violation of grant assurances 19 and 20. The letter states: "Subsequent to the full implementation of a wildlife mitigation plan acceptable to the FAA, all future grants will be conditioned on McKinney's completion of the milestones for establishing a replacement landfill as provided in its motion for leave to file dated June 22, 2000. Should McKinney not accomplish all milestones for the replacement landfill scheduled for completion prior to any application for AIP funds, it will be considered ineligible for AIP funding until such time as it accomplishes those milestones and any other milestone coming due during the period of ineligibility."

Milestones for the replacement landfill have been repeatedly missed; expected issuance of TNRCC permit was scheduled for December 2002; the landfill is still without permit. Initial site development for the landfill was scheduled to begin January 2003; without a permit the landfill cannot be developed.

Furthermore, an April 15, 2003, letter from the FAA's David Bennett states that it is "imperative that the City of McKinney closes the McKinney landfill." The same letter moved the closure date for the landfill back six months to June 30, 2004. This extends the City of McKinney's period of ineligibility to request or receive federal AIP funds until either June 30, 2004, or until the replacement landfill milestone completion and closure of the existing landfill are complete.

According to the FAA directive, the City of McKinney should never have been allowed to request AIP funds. Through the FAA Block Grant Program that the State of Texas participates in, Texas has taken on the responsibility to assure sponsor eligibility and compliance with the grant assurances as outlined in the Block Grant Program pages signed by Mr. David Fulton, TxDOT Aviation Director. Approval today by the Texas transportation commissioners of the requested federal funds will be in violation of the federal FAA directives.

And I'm requesting to submit into the formal record the following items: a copy of the FAA approval for replacement landfill; the schedule for that; information that as of 4:00 a.m. this morning the replacement landfill has not been permitted; a copy of the July 26, 2000, letter stating the director's determination on remand; a copy of the April 15, 2003, letter extending the City of McKinney's closure date for the existing landfill -- this extends the city's period of ineligibility for application and receipt of federal AIP funds; a partial listing of the federal grant assurances for airport sponsors; and last, various pages of the Aviation Block Grant Program Agreement between the United States of America, acting through the Federal Aviation Administration, and the State of Texas.

The pages contain a partial list of responsibilities and functions for the State of Texas which include Texas' responsibilities to ensure sponsor eligibility, compliance responsibility for clear approaches, compatible land use, and landfills; the last page is a copy of the State’s certification for State Block Grant that is a formal agreement that Texas will comply with statutory and administrative requirements.

Thank you.

MR. JOHNSON: They will be placed in the record if you'll bring them forward. Thank you.

David Fulton, do I understand there is a gentleman from the FAA here?

MR. FULTON: Yes, Chairman. Since this is an issue about eligibility for federal funding, Mr. Mike Nicely, who manages FAA's grant program for the entire state of Texas is here, and with your approval, I'd like to ask him to respond to those allegations.

MR. JOHNSON: We would like that.

MR. NICELY: Good morning, commissioners. My name is Mike Nicely. I'm the manager of the Texas Airport Development Office.

I don't know where to begin to respond other than to say that the City of McKinney is in compliance with their grant assurances. Subsequent to the July 26, 2000, letter that Mr. Bennett wrote placing the City of McKinney in noncompliance, they were required to implement a wildlife mitigation plan and close the landfill by December 31, 2003.

On January 26, 2001, Mr. Bennett determined that the City of McKinney had taken the necessary corrective actions and determined that McKinney was in compliance with their grant assurances. They had developed a wildlife mitigation plan; it was submitted to the FAA wildlife biologists in Washington who found the plan acceptable. He also required that they continue to meet milestones for closure of the landfill in 2003, and as was stated earlier, on April 15, Mr. Bennett extended the deadline for the closure of the landfill from December 2003 to June 30, 2004.

Is there any specific questions you want me to answer?

MR. JOHNSON: Richard Monroe, would you come up?

And, Robert, do you have a question?

MR. NICHOLS: He's with the FAA?

MR. JOHNSON: Yes.

MR. NICHOLS: So you're with the FAA and you're saying that they are in compliance?

MR. NICELY: Yes, sir, I am with the FAA and they are in compliance.

MR. MONROE: Richard Monroe, general counsel with the department. That's good enough for me.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you.

Don Keathly?

MR. KEATHLY: Good morning, commissioners. I am Don Keathly from McKinney, Texas. I come to you today speaking in opposition to the $500,000 AIP funding request from the City of McKinney.

On August 11, 2003, I spoke to the TxDOT Aviation public hearing informing Director David Fulton that McKinney was in violation of federal grant assurances 19 and 20 as filed in a Part 16 complaint from the town of Fairview in 1999, Docket 1699-04. In response to the complaint, Mr. David Bennett, director of the Office of Airport Safety and Standards determined that the City of McKinney was in fact in violation of federal grant assurances 19, Operating and Maintenance, and federal grant assurance 20, Hazard Removal and Mitigation. He subsequently directed that all future grants be conditioned upon McKinney's completion of the milestones.

Now, what you just heard from Mr. Nicely is if you will read the document that I think Ms. Kaminsky has forwarded to you but I also have in my documents that same directive from Mr. Bennett, it alludes to the landfill being closed by the 30th. The subsequent letter that granted some extension of time extended the time of the landfill, it did not waive the milestones, and the City of McKinney has missed those milestones. Therefore, they are in fact still in violation.

I would ask the commissioners to take this under advisement. This is a serious situation that is being placed at your doorstep. The reason I'm at this venue today is that I have made attempts at bringing this to resolve at the City of McKinney, I brought this to the attention of Director Fulton and have provided him with all the proper documentation, along with the new Part 16 complaint that I personally filed on August 8 which addresses these two issues plus three additional issues, so there is a current complaint in place.

McKinney is in fact in violation, and I find it interesting that in our form of government we've always had a checks and balance system, and I'm here today as the third part of that process to ask you commissioners to review this situation and rely on your read and understanding of the document because it very clearly states that McKinney is still in violation and should never had made a request not only for the February 27 request for $1.4 million that they've received, but they cannot and they must be denied the application for this $500,000 funding.

Thank you very much.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you.

MR. FULTON: May I respond?

MR. JOHNSON: Please.

MR. FULTON: Mr. Chairman, we have a contract with the FAA to carry out the State Block Grant Program. Certain duties are delegated to TxDOT; certain are not. In our contract, compliance for reliever airports remains the sole responsibility of the FAA, so we really don't have any contractual rights to do anything about compliance, and Mr. Nicely has stated that they are in compliance.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you.

Ken Wiegand from McKinney.

MR. WIEGAND: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the commission, Mr. Behrens. I'm Ken Wiegand. I'm the airport director in McKinney and I'm here to explain that the $500,000 grant that we've asked for is actually there to enhance safety on the airport. We're widening our curb radius that we call fillets on our runway to allow Global Express aircraft to operate out of McKinney. We have two brand new Global Expresses operating for one of our major corporations in Collin County.

The airport serves more than 800,000 people in the county; it is the only business airport in Collin County. And I'd also like to let you know, Mr. Chairman, that we are conducting a master plan update and a noise study because we want to be friendly to all the citizens of the county and especially our neighbors who choose to live next to the airport or near the airport, and we have involved 60 citizens in the process of the master plan update in a technical advisory and a citizens advisory committee.

We also have a full-time website that addresses the issues, keeps the citizens involved on where we are and what we're doing in order to try to be a better citizen not only in our community but in the state. We have 14 public sessions that are going to be conducted throughout this process.

I'd like to thank the TxDOT Division of Aviation for their support and this commission for their support, and I tell you, without the Aviation Division and the leadership that David Fulton gives it, aviation and airports in Virginia would be in a sorry state.

I have some cards here that give you the website address for our master plan update. I'd like to present them to the members of the commission and the executive director, if I may. That's all I have. Thank you very much for allowing me to speak.

MR. JOHNSON: Any questions of Mr. Wiegand?

Larry Robinson, city manager from McKinney.

MR. ROBINSON: Mr. Chairman and members of the commission. I guess I need to clarify one thing, and that is Dave Fulton is not helping out the State of Virginia. My current airport director was running the state program, similar to what Mr. Fulton does, in Virginia, so every now and then he kind of slips up but he is very Texan-ized, and I will take care of that as soon as we leave the forum.

(General laughter.)

MR. ROBINSON: But again, I'm Larry Robinson, city manager for the City of McKinney, and again, I would appreciate the support of the commission for this item so that we can provide better services for our aviation community. And my comments are just that brief: to again thank you for your consideration of this item.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I have a question for this gentleman.

MR. JOHNSON: Questions for any of the speakers, Ric?

MR. WILLIAMSON: Is McKinney Aerospace a private corporation, a private company?

MR. ROBINSON: Yes, sir, it is.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Do they have physical assets located at the airport that they pay property taxes on?

MR. ROBINSON: Yes, sir, they do.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Is the ability to service Global Express aircraft, at least the two and perhaps more, would that result in an increased property tax base?

MR. ROBINSON: Yes, sir, it would.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you. Property taxes go to schools, don't they?

MR. ROBINSON: Yes, sir, they do.

MR. WILLIAMSON: That's all I have. Thanks.

MR. ROBINSON: Thank you.

MR. JOHNSON: Robert, any questions or observations?

MR. NICHOLS: Observations or comments; I don't really have any questions. It's been stated and shown in these minute orders that there's more than one airport related in this packet; McKinney is the one that most of the conversation is regarded to, but it's a significant safety development improvement to that airport?

MR. FULTON: Yes, sir, I went up and personally toured the airport and took a look at the aircraft which I had not seen up close and personal, and an aircraft of that size needs a greater turning radius, so it's my opinion that this is a safety project.

MR. NICHOLS: That's what someone stated a while ago. This is a significant safety improvement to an airport that is in one of the fastest-growing counties, and this grant is supported by the city, as I understand it, by a city resolution?

MR. FULTON: Yes, sir, it is.

MR. NICHOLS: We usually look to the local officials to resolve local concerns. If there's a local concern, the city officials have considered it and expressed their support for this improvement project. The issue related to whether or not the airport is or is not in compliance with the FAA, we've got someone from the FAA who has stood there and attested to the fact that they are in compliance. That's true also.

MR. FULTON: Yes, sir.

MR. NICHOLS: So for all those reasons, I'll so move that we accept these projects.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I second.

MR. JOHNSON: Well, I have one observation and it's along those same lines.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I'll withdraw my second.

MR. JOHNSON: Your second is accepted.

I think what Ms. Kaminsky and Mr. Keathly are asking the commission to do is to make a judgment on whether the McKinney Airport is in violation of an FAA regulation. The FAA gentleman has stated that he doesn't think they are; our counsel has said that's sufficient for him; and you've made the statement that we don't have the authority to pass judgment on FAA regulations in this instance. So Robert has made the motion, Ric has seconded it, so I would call for a vote. All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries. Thank you.

MR. FULTON: Thank you.

Item 5(b), this minute order is for the purpose of reauthorizing the Routine Airport Maintenance Program. If approved, the program will provide up to $30,000 in matching funds, 50 percent state, 50 percent local, for airport maintenance and small capital improvement work items for each airport included in Attachment A of this minute order. We would recommend approval of the minute order.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries. David, thank you.

MR. BEHRENS: We'll go to agenda item 6 --

MR. WILLIAMSON: Oh, wait, Dave, come back a second. It's my understanding that there's a possibility that the governor and the legislative leadership are going to ask us to assume responsibility for what was formerly or soon to be formerly known as the Aircraft Pooling Board. Correct?

MR. FULTON: Yes, sir, there's dialogue going on at this moment about that.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I have a personal request if that is what ends up occurring and this is really important to me, I want you to find the biggest plane in that fleet and I want it immediately named the Airship Robert Nichols.

(General laughter.)

MR. FULTON: We can take care of that.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I want to say one time I flew on an airplane named Robert Nichols.

MR. FULTON: We'll certainly take care of that.

MR. WILLIAMSON: It's real important.

MR. BEHRENS: Going on to agenda item 6, Public Transportation, we will defer 6(a) to some point in the future and we'll go to item 6(b), and if you'll take (b), (c) and (d), Wayne.

MR. DENNIS: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, commission members, Mr. Behrens. For the record, my name is Wayne Dennis. I'm the interim director of TxDOT's Public Transportation Division.

This minute order authorizes TxDOT's executive director, or his designee, to negotiate with the Commissioner of Health and Human Services to develop and execute a temporary interagency agreement between the Health and Human Services Commission and the department for the funding and transitional oversight of eligible client transportation services.

The 78th regular session of the Texas Legislature, through the passage of House Bill 3588 and House Bill 2292, directed the Health and Human Services Commission and its associated agencies to contract with the department for the department to assume all responsibilities relating to the provision of transportation services for their clients of eligible programs. The FY 2004-2005 Appropriations Bill directs the Commissioner of Health and Human Services to enter into an agreement with the department for the provision of client transportation services and requires the department to fund all eligible client transportation services expenditures beginning September 1, 2003.

It is important that there be a smooth transition of responsibilities between the various health and human services state agencies and the department to ensure continuity of service to those in need of client transportation services. This temporary agreement will allow for such a transfer to occur in a timely and efficient manner. Staff recommends approval of this minute order.

MR. JOHNSON: We have one speaker signed up to address the commission on this agenda item, Dr. Charles E. Bell, the deputy commissioner for Health and Human Services Commission. Doctor, welcome. Thank you for being here.

DR. BELL: Thank you. Good morning. Chairman Johnson, commissioners and Mr. Behrens, thank you for allowing me to speak. I'm representing Commissioner Albert Hawkins of the Health and Human Services Commission, and I'd just like to say that we're looking forward to working with the Texas Department of Transportation to coordinate all of the Health and Human Services transportation services for our clients and also in providing the quality services that are needed to carry out these activities. We're also planning to work collaboratively with TxDOT to ensure a smooth transition of the Medicaid Medical Transportation Program to this department.

Again, thank you for allowing me to address the commission, and if you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer them.

MR. JOHNSON: Any questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: How is old Albert doing?

DR. BELL: He's doing well, a little bit overwhelmed at this time, but he's doing well.

MR. WILLIAMSON: It's kind of you to come over here and address us, and I think we appreciate very much all the cooperation that Wayne and Cindy Mueller and Steve Simmons have told me we've had and that we're trying to build on. I know it's important. We at the transportation side frequently take the position that what we're doing is the most important thing, but the truth is we know this is very important to Albert and to the department and to all of the departments affected by it, and I think we all have a vested interest in being successful, and we all are probably pretty sensitive to not being successful.

So we want to be as collaborative and cooperative with you as you have indicated you want to be with us, and we don't want anybody to suffer over this deal.

DR. BELL: Thank you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: But I've got to think of something I can poke on Albert about while I've got one of his staff.

Are you familiar with Albert Hawkins, Chairman?

MR. JOHNSON: Absolutely.

MR. WILLIAMSON: He taught me everything about the state budget I ever knew; he was the guy that taught all of us when we were freshmen in the legislature, and he is counted as one of our closest friends. We appreciate your coming over.

DR. BELL: Thank you, sir.

MR. JOHNSON: Robert, did you have anything?

MR. NICHOLS: No. I'll ditto Ric Williamson's remarks. Tell Albert hello.

DR. BELL: Thank you.

MR. NICHOLS: I didn't have the chance to spend as much time as Ric Williamson did, but I certainly had opportunities to work with Albert and am looking forward to working with you all in a relationship here that will be beneficial to everyone.

MR. WILLIAMSON: The reason he didn't have as much time is he spent all of his time passing point of collection to provide the money to help us pay for all of this.

(General laughter.)

MR. JOHNSON: We appreciate your being here. The spirit of working together, I think, is contagious and we're really relishing that.

DR. BELL: Thank you, sir.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you.

Is there a motion?

MR. WILLIAMSON: I so move.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. DENNIS: Item 6(c), in the same vein this minute order authorizes TxDOT's executive director, or his designee, to negotiate with the Commissioner of Health and Human Services to develop and enter into a memorandum of understanding to determine the number of employees necessary for the department to assume all responsibilities relating to the provision of transportation services for their clients of eligible programs.

The 78th regular session of the Texas Legislature, through the passage of House Bill 3588 and House Bill 2292, directed the Health and Human Services Commission and its associated agencies to contract with the department for the department to assume all responsibilities relating to the provision of transportation services for their clients of eligible programs.

To ensure a smooth and efficient transition of responsibilities between the various health and human services agencies and the department, it's important that the department be able to acquire by interagency transfer or hire the appropriate staff in a timely manner. This memorandum of understanding will facilitate that transition. Staff recommends approval of the minute order.

MR. JOHNSON: Questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. DENNIS: Item 6(d). This minute order authorizes TxDOT's executive director, or his designee, to negotiate with the Texas Workforce Commission to develop and enter into a temporary interagency agreement between the Texas Workforce Commission and the department for the funding and transitional oversight of eligible client transportation services.

The 78th regular session of the Texas Legislature, through the passage of House Bill 3588, directed the Texas Workforce Commission to contract with the department for the department to assume all responsibilities relating to the provision of transportation services for their clients of eligible programs.

The FY 2004-2005 Appropriations Bill directs the department to fund all eligible client transportation service expenditures for the Texas Workforce Commission beginning September 1, 2003. It is important that there be a smooth transition of responsibilities between the Texas Workforce Commission and the department to ensure the continuity of service to those in need of client transportation services. This temporary agreement will allow for such a transition to occur in a timely and efficient manner. Staff recommends approval of this minute order.

MR. JOHNSON: Questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries. Thank you, Wayne.

MR. BEHRENS: Item 7 will have four minute orders up for consideration under Transportation Planning and Programming.

MR. RANDALL: Good morning, commissioners. My name is Jim Randall, director of the Transportation Planning and Programming Division.

Item 7(a), we bring to you the fourth quarter program for the economically disadvantaged counties to adjust matching fund requirements. In your books is Exhibit A that lists the projects and staff's recommended adjustments for each of them. The adjustments are based on the equations approved in earlier proposals; there are 27 projects in nine counties; the total reduction in participation for these projects is $1,273,468. We recommend approval of this minute order.

MR. JOHNSON: Any questions?

MR. NICHOLS: I had one question. Every so many years we go back and review which counties qualify.

MR. RANDALL: Every year.

MR. NICHOLS: It's every year?

MR. RANDALL: Yes, sir.

MR. NICHOLS: That answers my question.

MR. RANDALL: We're out there in that process right now.

MR. NICHOLS: Okay.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. RANDALL: Item 7(b), as a condition of securing federal funds for transportation projects of either Title 23 United States Code or the Federal Transit Act, each designated metropolitan planning organization and the state are required to develop a transportation improvement program, or TIP. According to federal requirements, the MPO develops the TIP in cooperation with the state and affected transit operators and must be updated at least every two years and approved by the MPO and the governor.

The individual TIPs are also incorporated in the Statewide Transportation Improvement Program, or STIP. By letter dated June 13, 2002, addressed to the Commissioner of Transportation, the governor delegated to the commission, or its designee, the power and responsibility to approve the STIP.

Over the last six months public meetings have been conducted throughout the state to receive comments on the various metropolitan and urban TIPs. In each of the department's 25 district offices and the headquarters office in Austin, the rural TIPs were made available for review and comment by interested parties. In addition, on August 4, 2003, a public hearing on the STIP was held in Austin. No oral or written comments were received at the hearing or from the district offices.

The rural and the MPO TIPs are consistent with the 2002 Unified Transportation program and meet all the requirements of Title 43 Texas Administrative Code, Sections 15.7 and 15.8, and corresponding federal rules.

With your approval of this minute order, the respective TIPs of each designated MPO, as well as those areas outside the designated MPO boundaries as reflected in the STIP, will be adopted. Also, the executive director will be authorized to sign all necessary certifications required by federal regulations. We recommend approval of this minute order.

MR. JOHNSON: Questions?

MR. NICHOLS: Question. Earlier in the meeting we adopted the Metropolitan Mobility Plan which is a new blueprint which I think we all believe is very significant in how we lay our plans out. Here we're laying a two-year plan out, or adopting it. I just wanted you to publicly state whether or not you see any problem or conflict with adopting the STIP here with the blueprint that's laid out in the Mobility Plan.

MR. RANDALL: No, sir.

MR. NICHOLS: No conflict?

MR. RANDALL: No.

MR. NICHOLS: Okay.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. RANDALL: Item 7(c), the Federal Highway Administration administers federal transportation programs and manages the distribution of federal dollars to the state. As part of these responsibilities, the FHWA designates transportation management areas, or TMAs, as urbanized areas with population of over 200,000. The 2000 census resulted in the designation of two new TMAs: the urbanized area of Denton-Lewisville, and the urbanized area of Lubbock. Due to these changes, the districts which encompass these urbanized areas, the Dallas and Lubbock districts, must have programming adjustments made to their STP Metropolitan Mobility Program since these areas are now entitled to these funds. Consequently, with the new census result, these areas are no longer entitled to STP Urban Mobility Funds.

With the recent UTP restructuring, STP Urban and Rural Mobility funds were combined with the State District Discretionary funds to create the new consolidated Category 11 District Discretionary. Upon approval of this minute order, the programming amounts for fiscal years 2003 through 2006 in Category 11 District Discretionary will be reduced for the Lubbock District by $21,146,000 and for the Dallas District by $17,255,000. The STP Metropolitan Mobility Programs in these districts will be increased by identical amounts. We recommend approval of this minute order.

MR. JOHNSON: Questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. RANDALL: Item 7(d), this minute order advances a project on US 183 and a project on US 183A to construction and amends the limits of the US 183 project. Minute Order 108653, dated September 21, 2001, authorized the US 183 and US 183A projects in Priority 2, or DEVELOP authority of the 2002 Unified Transportation Program. The US 183 project limits were originally from north of Lakeline Boulevard to north of Ranch to Market Road 620. In order to construct this project in the most economical manner, it is necessary to advance the project to Priority 1, or CONSTRUCT authority, Category 3A, NHS Mobility of the 2002 UTP and amend the limits.

The proposed new limits will be from north of McNeil Road to Ranch to Market Road 620, a distance of approximately 2-1/2 miles. The total estimated construction cost of this project is $35 million. The US 183A project is from north of Avery Ranch Boulevard to north of Ranch to Market Road 620, a distance of approximately 1-1/2 miles.

Minute order 108897, dated May 30, 2002, expressed the Texas Transportation Commission's desire to open US 183A in a timely manner in order to support the Central Texas Turnpike Project. Therefore, it's necessary to advance the project to Priority 1, CONSTRUCT, Category 18, Candidate Turnpike Projects of the 2002 UTP. The estimated construction cost of this project is $42 million.

Staff recommends approval of this minute order.

MR. JOHNSON: Question?

MR. WILLIAMSON: Yes. This may not be so much directed towards Jim as it is the opportunity to put out into the department's arena some discussion about how to address a problem -- not a problem, Mike, an opportunity.

I drove out a couple of weeks ago and just once more did 183 and kind of looked around out in that part of the world, and it's apparent to me that population growth continues north well beyond the limits of this immediate project. We have authority now from the legislature, I think, to begin to anticipate where future road and rail requirements might be and to spend money, if it's available, on purchasing right of way and making plans more out in advance of actual construction.

To what extent have we given thought to or what do we have in process at the staff level to kind of formulate the opportunity to plan beyond the immediate need or to anticipate where growth is going to occur and try to start thinking about how to build those roads before the growth does occur? Are we still in the thinking stage on that?

MR. BEHRENS: We're in the thinking stage and I think you and I earlier had discussions a few weeks ago about looking at the demography of the areas and where this potential growth could occur, and of course, like was talked about earlier in our Metropolitan Mobility Plan, when we were discussing and putting that plan together, also encouraging the locals to be looking in advance of where development might occur, businesses might occur and reserving a footprint for transportation corridors so that you would have those there before you had all the area built up. So I think we, in conjunction with them, are both looking at it.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So passage of the metro plan is a step towards being more aggressive about that.

MR. BEHRENS: It's a step towards it where we think strongly about cities and planning and zoning committees using their ordinance power to set aside land that can be available for transportation corridors instead of smaller amounts of right of way as we've seen in the past, but encourage them to get larger amounts to meet those future traffic projections -- that maybe some don't think is going to be there but I think we have all learned by experience that they will be there.

MR. WILLIAMSON: The nature of the question, Chairman, it seemed to me that the legislature generally gave us the authority to think beyond the immediate problem and gave us some tools to address that, and to even perhaps think unconventionally about the way we do some basic things, and the point of taking this opportunity to have this dialogue, it seems to me that within a reasonable degree of error, logical men and women know where urban residential development should occur and where industrial development is likely to occur in the next five, ten, fifteen, and thirty years, and perhaps it's in our long-term best economic interest to do everything we can at the state level to anticipate that and prepare for it as opposed to waiting because of the financial constraints to act as we're acting now on 183A.

I mean, I'm glad we're doing this and even the way it's being done is not as disruptive as it could be, but the truth is it's still going to be pretty damn disruptive to that part of the state, and it would have been so much nicer had we had the authority 15 years ago to have gone ahead and bought the right of way to have gone ahead and done some initial planning for concrete roads, light rail, bicycle paths, the things that people always say they want but we always seem to not be able to get there because the footprint is so small and everybody has built up right next to it.

So my comments are in the nature of I would encourage you to tell us at the commission level what we need to do to push that effort forward, because I think it's worth investing in.

MR. RANDALL: Currently, sir, within the 25 metropolitan planning organizations they're required to develop a metropolitan transportation plan and that's a plan over the next 20 to 25 years. Part of my division works with those 25 areas to help them to develop models, travel-demand forecast models in which demographics is part of that. So we've been planning but we haven't had the tools to implement it until the recent legislation.

MR. WILLIAMSON: And I'm aware of that, Jim, and I don't mean to ignore the existence of that effort, but one thing I've learned in my two years on the commission is those planners and our planners are not inclined to say, for example, is it likely that State Highway 199 northwest out of Fort Worth, 27 miles from here is going to have 15,000 people living in modular homes with a tax base value of less than $50,000 and an average family income of $21,000, and are they likely to operate what kind of vehicles and what should we do today to anticipate that 27 miles away.

The planning cycle tends to be, well, where is the traffic at this moment in time and where is it going to be three miles away, or six miles away. I don't see a tremendous amount of energy expended on what's going to happen 15 years from now or what's happening right now that 15 years from now is going to make us look back and wish that we had bought enough right of way for State Highway 199 to be ten lanes wide with transit in the middle and bicycle lanes on the outside.

MR. RANDALL: Well, we'll try to improve our long-range planning skills.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I just think you can't anticipate that's going to happen at every point on the compass around every metro area, but logical men and women can look at a map and can look at growth patterns and look at average incomes and look at property values and say there's a pretty good chance, for example, that residential growth is going to explode south into Hays County because the traffic problems are less, the land is cheaper, the water is more plentiful, and people are already building houses there. I use that as an example because it's been brought to us.

I mean, logical people can do that. What's the criticism: Well, you're building a road to nowhere? You know, that's okay, throw that criticism at me, I'm fine with that. We may be building some roads to nowhere but it's building roads to where we know people are going to be someday -- and rail. Thank you.

I just don't think we need to be afraid of doing that.

MR. RANDALL: Okay, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I think the legislature told us to think more aggressively and we should do so.

MR. JOHNSON: Robert, did you have anything?

MR. NICHOLS: Yes. I sent an e-mail on Monday and I think Phil Russell came and answered my questions, but while you're standing here and this minute order is to advance that, I want to get on record that this action to speed this up and move the construction level on up does not prevent us from considering any portion of this as a possible toll road since it's attached to the other toll system up there?

MR. RANDALL: Yes, sir. Basically these are providing access to State Highway 45, so we're looking at direct connectors from 183 onto 45 and essentially the same direction from the north.

MR. NICHOLS: There's also a possibility of a 2-1/2 mile improvement in there and there's nothing that would prevent us from including some of this in the actual toll area.

MR. RANDALL: Not that I'm aware of. The 2-1/2-mile transition is basically letting you transition from a high-speed facility onto 45

MR. NICHOLS: Yes, but it's not actually in -- our portion of the toll road is currently planned as a tolled portion but it might could be under the regional mobility, Central Texas RMA, and I guess I'm just for the record trying to publicly say I know they have considered trying to figure out a way to include that into their 183 toll project, and I would continue to encourage them to do that.

MR. RANDALL: Hopefully Phil is behind me saying yes.

MR. NICHOLS: He's nodding.

(General laughter.)

MR. JOHNSON: Is there a motion?

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. BEHRENS: We'll go to item number 8 considering our turnpike projects, and this will be to authorize publication for competing proposals on 45 southeast, and that will be presented by Phil Russell.

MR. RUSSELL: Good morning, commissioners. For the record, I'm Phillip Russell, director of the Texas Turnpike Authority Division. And also for the record, Jim, yes, I was nodding my head up and down. You did a great job.

The minute order before you of course does relate to an unsolicited proposal which we received from the Zachry Corporation on July 17, just last month, and it relates to the State Highway 45 southeast project that the department is currently working on.

The proposal generally would connect up I-35 on the west with State Highway 130/US 183 on the east. Depending on the ultimate alignment that would come out of the NEPA process, the environmental process, that's a distance of about seven miles. The proposal also would envision a rail-friendly corridor throughout that length as well.

The division has reviewed the proposal and we would support moving forward with that publication, so by approving this minute order you would authorize the publication of the RFPQ for the State Highway 45 southeast. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.

MR. JOHNSON: Questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: When you say the division has approved -- or what are the words you used, Phil?

MR. RUSSELL: Reviewed.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So you say you know what the commission's philosophy is, you know what the commission's goals are. Are you recommending from a staff perspective that this is a project that needs to be constructed whether it's this route or some other route -- this method or some other method?

MR. RUSSELL: Yes, sir, exactly.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Because we can rationally say we're going to do this one way or the other.

MR. RUSSELL: Depending on the NEPA process, yes, sir, that is exactly right.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I know we have a pending project on the Trans-Texas Corridor but this is really the first proposal to come after the passage of House Bill 3588 and codification of all the new laws.

MR. RUSSELL: Yes, sir.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I move.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. BEHRENS: Agenda item number 9 is our State Infrastructure Bank, and we have a request for a loan from the city of Cameron. And James, if you will, go ahead and go into agenda item number 10 when you complete 9.

MR. BASS: All right. For the record, I'm James Bass, director of the Finance Division.

Agenda item 9 seeks your final approval of a loan to the City of Cameron in the amount of $510,000 with the possibility of an additional 20 percent for contingency needs above and beyond the $510-, to fund utility relocations related to the widening of State Highway 36 between US 77 in the city of Cameron to just south of the city connecting back to US 77 once again.

Interest would accrue from the date funds are transferred from the SIB at a rate of 4.5 percent with payments being made over a period of 13 years, and staff would recommend your approval.

MR. JOHNSON: Any questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: I'd like to know if James is going to the same weight loss program as Steve Simmons and Amadeo Saenz.

MR. BASS: Actually, I think all the weight that they're losing, I keep finding.

(General laughter.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. BASS: Agenda item 10 seeks your approval of the department's Fiscal Year 2004 Operating Budget in the amount of just under $5.3 billion. This Operating Budget and its distribution amongst the various department strategies is in accordance with the Appropriations Bill recently passed by the legislature, and staff would recommend your approval.

MR. JOHNSON: Questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: I'll second it but I do have a question.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I withdraw.

MR. NICHOLS: No, that's okay. It's not going to change it, just a clarification.

This is in effect approving formally, from our standpoint, what the legislature approved by legislation?

MR. BASS: Yes. I think I would phrase it as this is where the Commission is delegating the authority to manage the department's Operating Budget to Mr. Behrens.

MR. NICHOLS: In our tolling, when we sell the toll bonds and that money comes in and then we issue those contracts, the extra revenues and authority is not specifically identified in here.

MR. BASS: Correct, and actually for the toll projects, the bonds that we have right now on the Central Texas Turnpike Project, they are not subject to appropriation.

MR. NICHOLS: The funds from the Mobility Fund that is now funded, when we issue those bonds and increase that expenditure, those new revenues inside this period are also not accounted. Is that right?

MR. BASS: They are not accounted for here as a number; we do have a rider authority which gives us the ability to increase our appropriation by whatever amount of bond proceeds from the Mobility Fund.

MR. NICHOLS: So I guess my point is -- and it's something that I don't think everybody has really figured out how to adapt to or account for it. They recognize it, they've given us the authority, but the actual revenue and expenditure authorization is not specifically laid out because they don't really know what it is -- I mean, we're talking about several billion dollars -- and when I've had conversations with some of the elected officials, they keep in their mind locking in this is the number, yet we are actually spending, that's approved, numbers that are substantially larger.

Have you had any conversations as you've worked with the Capitol on ways to identify that in a better way?

MR. BASS: Not specifically. I guess the format of the department's appropriations request, of course, what they wanted to see are only those items which are subject to the appropriation. We have made available -- and relayed that we will always have available -- information related to the turnpike projects, and then once we do get into the Mobility Fund, I believe those bond proceeds would be subject to appropriation and we would actually have that listed in our appropriation pattern in future years. It's not currently in there now.

MR. NICHOLS: Okay. I understand what this is and I think they do too. I know that there's a weakness in that system. It's authorized, it's approved, but it's a large, a very large number that's not accounted for. That's all.

MR. BEHRENS: Commissioner, we were talking about our budget and we were talking about Mobility Fund. We will set up a way to identify how we are spending the Mobility Fund money because we know we will be asked, so we will be able to identify where that money went to.

MR. NICHOLS: That's all I had.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. BEHRENS: Item 11, our Capital Improvement Plan will be presented by Zane.

MR. WEBB: Good morning, commissioners. I'm Zane Webb, director of the Maintenance Division.

The minute order you've got before you is to approve the expenditure of funds that were appropriated by the last regular session of the legislature. The funds are for acquisition of real property, building TxDOT facilities, facility repairs. Exhibit A has the proposed program but one would expect that there will be substitutions, additions or deletions during the next biennium. Staff recommends approval.

MR. JOHNSON: Any questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. WEBB: Thank you.

MR. BEHRENS: Agenda item number 12 is our Contract portion, and Thomas will present (a), (b) and (c).

MR. BOHUSLAV: Good morning, commissioners. My name is Thomas Bohuslav. I'm director of the Construction Division.

Item 12(a)(1) is for consideration of the award or rejection of Highway Maintenance Contracts let on August 5 and 6, 2003, whose engineers' estimated costs are $300,000 or more. We had 15 projects; we recommend award of all projects.

MR. JOHNSON: Any questions?

MR. NICHOLS: I had two -- I'm trying to find it in here.

MR. JOHNSON: Are you in maintenance or construction?

MR. NICHOLS: My question is on the very next piece.

MR. JOHNSON: I'll entertain a motion for approval.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. BOHUSLAV: Item 12(a)(2) is for consideration of award or rejection of Highway Construction and Building Contracts let on August 5 and 6, 2003. We had 112 projects for a $567 million low bid amount. We recommend all projects for award except for a project in Nueces County. It's project number 3219; we received two bids on that; it was 39 percent over. This is for some landscape work in the district and we had contacted other bidders and they are interested in bidding this project; they were unable to bid it at the time, and we think we can get more competition and get better prices if we go back and rebid it. Staff recommends award of all the projects with the exception noted. Questions?

MR. JOHNSON: Questions?

MR. NICHOLS: There were two I think I'd sent an e-mail -- I'm assuming you got it also -- that had to do with potentially tolling some of these. I'm just trying to get it on the record. The contract for the State Highway 99 in the Harris -- well, actually it's in the Beaumont District but it's part of the Houston Loop -- which is kind of interesting -- for almost $48 million that we are pursuing the environmental to have that considered as a toll road.

MR. BEHRENS: Yes, sir.

MR. NICHOLS: I just want to make sure. That's my understanding and we certainly have encouraged it from the commission's standpoint that that be tolled. And then there was another project in the list I think was identified as a substantial expenditure for a new location expansion on 360 up in the -- do you want to address them?

MR. SAENZ: Yes, sir. For the record, Amadeo Saenz. Yes, sir, both of those projects, State Highway 99 project, we are working with the Houston District and the Grand Parkway Association and have come up with an action plan on how to convert that project to a toll project. We had commitments so this project had to be let by this date based on some commitments for some monies and also some right of way, so we're moving forward with the district and the Grand Parkway and have a plan on how this project, by the time it's completed, will be a toll road.

The 360 project, we're working with the district at this time to see what we can do, something very similar, to see if this project can be converted to a toll road project and what it will take to do it, so when the project opens it will have the same thing.

MR. NICHOLS: That's it.

MR. JOHNSON: Is there a motion?

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. BOHUSLAV: Item 12(b) is for a minute order that establishes Fiscal Year 2004 Historically Underutilized Business goals. The goals are 26 percent for building construction contracts, 57.2 percent for special trade contracts, 20 percent for professional services contracts, 33 percent for other services contracts, and 12.6 percent for commodity purchasing. These goals are based on the Disparity Study that was funded by the comptroller. Staff recommends approval.

MR. JOHNSON: Any questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

MR. BOHUSLAV: Item 12(c) is for a minute order that establishes a Small Business Enterprise goal of 23 percent for Fiscal Year 2004. Staff recommends approval.

MR. JOHNSON: Questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries. Thank you, Thomas.

MR. BEHRENS: Agenda item 13 is our Routine Minute Orders. I will point out that item 13(d)(5) which pertains to Williamson County will be deferred until next month. The rest of them are as posted on our agenda. Unless you want those individually discussed, I recommend we approve the Routine Minute Orders.

MR. JOHNSON: Are there any questions?

MR. WILLIAMSON: My standard question: Do any of these minute orders affect, as far as you know, Mr. Behrens, the three commissioners personally?

MR. BEHRENS: No, sir, not to our knowledge.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Motion carries.

We will now enter into the open comment period of the meeting. Are there any speakers?

Tommy Eden.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I thought of you this morning, Tommy. I was coming up in the cold dark, stopped at a truck stop in Waco, and they're selling at this truck stop these electric scooters that you can like plug into your wall and charge up and they're supposed to go for ten hours.

MR. BEHRENS: Segways?

MR. WILLIAMSON: No. They're little electric scooters. They're at the Flying J Truck Stop on the west side of 35 right outside of Waco. I stopped and checked them out. I said, Tommy needs one of those.

(General laughter.)

MR. EDEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and commission members. My name is Tommy Eden.

I have given you copies of a document which was presented to the CAMPO Transportation Policy Board earlier this month. This document lists the bicycle and pedestrian projects for which CAMPO has allocated funding since 1995. While I am pleased to report that most of the projects funded in the past ten years have been completed, I'm also concerned about a significant number of projects which are listed as "Delayed by TxDOT budget cap."

The last time I came to speak with you about this issue, I suggested that TxDOT was obstructing progress on bicycle and pedestrian projects. As it turns out, our local officials are reluctant to conclude that TxDOT has been obstructing progress, but they do report that TxDOT has been moving very slowly in dealing with those bicycle and pedestrian projects.

TxDOT administers the federal funds which CAMPO allocates. The federal government delivers the funds to TxDOT and TxDOT is supposed to distribute the funds to the local jurisdiction as CAMPO allocates the funds. If TxDOT has already received these federal funds, then why do they have a budget cap? Where has the money gone? Why isn't it available? Is TxDOT using our federal tax money as its own private piggy bank? Commissioners, I hope you can help me find out where this money went.

I'd also like to bring to your attention a pedestrian project which is not --

MR. WILLIAMSON: You don't mean in their private back pocket piggy bank, you mean their public private piggy bank.

MR. EDEN: Something of that sort, yes.

MR. WILLIAMSON: You don't mean like they're converting it to their personal?

MR. EDEN: No. I'm suggesting they may be putting it into other projects.

MR. WILLIAMSON: Public projects?

MR. EDEN: Public projects, yes. Their own private public piggy bank.

I would also like to bring to your attention a pedestrian project which has not yet been funded. The City of Austin has needed to hire a consultant to redesign a project to improve pedestrian access across a TxDOT highway. According to the City of Austin staff, TxDOT traffic engineers consider it perfectly fine to require pedestrians to detour more than a mile to reach their destination.

Commissioners, I trust that the traffic engineers are professional in their judgments, but the City of Austin established goals in 1998 or 1999 to reduce the injuries to pedestrians and bicyclists. City staff has successfully reduced the number of fatal and incapacitating injuries to pedestrians and bicyclists over each of the past three years, but they really need the cooperation of the TxDOT engineers in this endeavor. Thank you.

MR. JOHNSON: Do you have a specific location that you referred to where the TxDOT engineers said a mile?

MR. EDEN: Yes. The one I'm thinking of in particular is on South Lamar at the interchange of Loop 360 and Ben White. The City proposed putting in improvements for pedestrians, sidewalks and crosswalks so that pedestrians could more easily get from one shopping center to another. Both of these shopping centers -- actually, there are three shopping centers all on the three corners of this interchange, but because of the way that interchange is constructed on the frontage roads, it is really difficult for pedestrians to get across it.

When the City made the proposal to put in sidewalks and crosswalks, TxDOT came back with the suggestion that they don't necessarily need to cross right at that intersection; they can go make a mile detour to get to where they're going. I don't consider that acceptable.

MR. JOHNSON: Any questions or comments of Mr. Eden and what he has brought before the commission?

MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, we always appreciate your saying nice things and chiding. It's good for us.

MR. EDEN: Thank you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: We'll look into it.

MR. JOHNSON: Absolutely.

MR. EDEN: Do you have any kind of answer about what's going on with this budget cap?

MR. WILLIAMSON: We don't want to build any more pedestrian walkways, Tommy. Isn't that fair?

(General laughter.)

MR. WILLIAMSON: I don't think they give us the money ahead of time.

Is that not correct, Mike?

MR. BEHRENS: That's correct.

MR. WILLIAMSON: I mean, just because it's in a plan doesn't mean they've sent us the money. They send us the money after we let a contract and expend state funds; then they reimburse us. And it's that way whether it's a pedestrian walkway or a bike path or a rail line or an asphalt road or an interstate. We spend state money and then they reimburse us based on the invoice we give them and the schedule that they've provided us. And if someone has said "On hold based on budget constraints" that means constraints in the amount of state tax money we have to spend on projects that we could then claim reimbursement for. But we don't already have the money in our pocket.

MR. EDEN: But it is assured that that money will be available as soon as the project is completed.

MR. WILLIAMSON: If we built a pedestrian walkway that qualified for federal funds, we would send them the invoice and they would reimburse us, correct.

MR. EDEN: Thank you.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So your action needs to be to push CAMPO and your new TxDOT district engineer Bob Daigh to build the walkways.

MR. EDEN: Thank you.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Tommy.

Any other business to come before the commission? There being none, I would entertain a motion to adjourn.

MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. NICHOLS: Second.

MR. JOHNSON: All in favor, signify by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

MR. JOHNSON: Please note for the record that it is 12:03 p.m., and this meeting stands adjourned.

(Whereupon, at 12:03 p.m., the meeting was concluded.)

MEETING OF: Texas Transportation Commission
LOCATION: Austin, Texas
DATE: August 28, 2003

I do hereby certify that the foregoing pages, numbers 1 through 113, inclusive, are the true, accurate, and complete transcript prepared from the verbal recording made by electronic recording by Sunny L. Peer before the Texas Department of Transportation.

                          09/01/03
(Transcriber) (Date)

On the Record Reporting, Inc.
3307 Northland, Suite 315
Austin, Texas 78731