Texas Department of Transportation Commission Meeting

Bob Bullock Hall - Room 101
Texas A&M International University
5201 University Blvd.
Laredo, Texas 78041-1900

9:00 a.m. Thursday, July 26, 2001

COMMISSION MEMBERS:

JOHN W. JOHNSON, Chair
ROBERT L. NICHOLS
RIC WILLIAMSON

STAFF:

CHARLES W. HEALD, Executive Director
HELEN HAVELKA, Executive Assistant, Engineering Operations
 

PROCEEDINGS

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Good morning. Since there's no clock on the wall, I'll declare that it's 9:00 o'clock a.m. Actually, for the record, it's 9:25 a.m. and I would like to call this meeting of the Texas Transportation Commission to order. I would like to welcome you to our July the 26th meeting. It is a pleasure to be here in Laredo and to have you here today. Please note for the record that public notice of this meeting containing all items of the agenda was filed with the Office of Secretary of State, who happens to be here and can certify to that effect, at 8:49 a.m. on July the 18th, 2001.

As you may know, it is the commission's practice to hold some of our monthly meetings outside of Austin in different locations around the state. And fortunately for us, we have chosen the Gateway City for this month's meeting. We benefit from having these meetings outside of Austin. It acquaints us with the interest, challenges and people of the various regions of Texas, and I'm sure by the time our visit is over, we will be better informed about the needs and challenges of the Laredo area.

Hopefully, our meeting will give you a sense of how we conduct business, at least in the transportation end of state government. We will hear from some local officials this morning, but if anyone else in the audience would like to address the commission, please fill out a card at the registration table in the lobby. To comment on an agenda item, we would ask that you would fill out a yellow card, and if the item that you wish to bring before the commission is not an agenda item, we will take your comments at the end of the meeting, and for that we would ask that you would fill out a blue card.

Before we get started, I would like to thank the good mayor, Betty Flores, for opening up her city to us and the Laredo Convention and Visitors Bureau for being such wonderful and gracious hosts since we have arrived and especially a thank you to our district led by the very capable Luis Ramirez, who has really rolled out the red carpet for us with a lovely dinner right here on the campus of Texas A & M International and to the many men and women who make this an outstanding district in the Department of Transportation and make this agency the premier one that it is. And, of course, our good friends at Texas Good Road, I thank you for hosting a lovely breakfast this morning.

I would now ask my fellow commissioners if they have any comments or observations and, Robert, I -- are you -- Robert, I'll start with you.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Just a short comment. Appreciate the hospitality we've received. I'm glad we're here. We had a nice reception yesterday and dinner with employees last night and a wonderful breakfast this morning. And this is an absolutely gorgeous campus. I know you-all are proud of it. It's got to be great for you and I was amazed to see deer walking around the campus last night so -- But there's a lot happening down here. Not only in Laredo, but the entire border. The whole state has a petition to look at the border and some of the unique problems and opportunities and it's good to be here. With that, I'll just close my comments.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Ric.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Same thing here and -- and TxDOT employees, thank you very much for your hospitality. Texas is a great state and no matter where you go, Texans are bringing it in and you're proving that to be the case as well. We appreciate it.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Thank you. I would also like to take a moment to introduce the members of our administration who are with us today. Of course, everyone knows Wes Heald, our very able and capable executive director, and also with us are Kirby Pickett, the deputy executive director. Kirby, if you would raise your hand. And Mike Behrens, assistant executive director for Engineering Operations. Two of these gentlemen's partners are with them, Dorothy Heald and Gerri Pickett. If you two would please be recognized. You're in the back of the room. That's the way I went through class in college also. But I can see you. I was hoping my professors wouldn't be able to see me.

We'll be hearing from quite a few people this morning and are looking forward to their comments. So if we can get started, I would like to call on Secretary of State, Mr. Henry Cuellar. It's a pleasure to have you here, and if you will lead us off.

MR. CUELLAR: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the commission. On behalf of Governor Rick Perry and myself, we want to thank you for holding this public hearing here in Laredo and the surrounding areas because, again, I think this is one of the best things you-all can do is go from Austin -- those out-of-town trips we had talked about coming from Austin and seeing what the local folks are interested in and I think this would be good for the process.

As a former House member from this particular area the last 14 years, and being a ten-year appropriations and learning from my good friend Ric Williamson, who taught me everything about performance-based budgeting, I have appreciated the work that the Department of Transportation has done. In fact, over the last 14 years, I've had an opportunity to work with different commissions and I would say that this particular commission, even though we've had outstanding commissioners for the Department of Transportation, as a collective body, when they look at the work that you've done, Mr. Chairman and, of course, Rob, what you've done and, of course, Ric, what you-all have been doing and the knowledge and the passion that you have, I would say without a doubt that you-all will do a great job for the State of Texas and especially for the -- for the border that has a lot of needs.

If you look at the funding for the Texas Department of Transportation from 1990 to the year 2000, the Texas Department of Transportation put in the border counties $2.9 billion. In the next four years, my understanding from your figures from your department, is that the department will put in about $1.5 million in the Texas border counties. The Texas Department of Transportation has been very responsive. As of -- just an example, we mentioned this to the mayor -- the mayor though this is one -- there was a need to have another bridge and a connector to handle the traffic that we have here in Laredo, the largest inland port in the whole United States.

We went up to Austin and sat down with the chairman at that time, David Laney, and your -- and your staff and they were very responsive in the sense that they came back and they put together a historic package for us of almost $100 million and if you see the World Trade Bridge, if you look at the connectors and -- and -- and we're seeing right now, this is, again, because your commission has been very responsive to the needs that we have here in the border.

Of course, when you're working with the Senate and the House and, of course, with your department, we created the district office here in 1990s, I would say that the department got a lot of sense of the ties to the needs that we had in this particular area and I ushered a new era of transportation responsiveness to this area when the district was -- district office was created. Of course, now with the leadership of Luis Ramirez and the staff that we have, it is a very responsive agency that we have.

I want to thank, of course, your employees because, Ric, as you know, you've always said that it is the employees that make a -- a department and your employees here -- not only in Austin, but also the ones here, have done a fantastic job and I want to thank them for that. So to all this, I say thank you. But at the same time, as you know, we do have challenges here on the border. Challenges that create opportunities.

The growth in trade, the growth in demographics, and certainly the growth in trade is something we need to look at. We were talking about our Washington trip just when I was up there in Washington and it was just -- I was trying to present some of the facts to some of the congressmen about just looking at the traffic that we have here in Laredo. If you look at the number of trucks that we have in Laredo here in a one-year period that go through the Laredo port, go up to San Antonio and line up all those trucks together at the end, you will have trucks that bridge -- that create a line from Washington, D.C. all the way to the coast of Australia. So you can imagine the type of traffic that's created here in the Laredo area.

I -- In addressing the transportation needs, I joined Governor Rick Perry in asking you to accelerate the construction of vital projects along the border. As you know, Chairman, you were traveling with -- with the governor a few -- few days ago. In fact, he was here in Laredo and -- and I join Governor Perry in asking you for the next month's commission meeting that if you would consider the $100 million worth of projects that will be started eight years earlier than scheduled. This will surely help the border address some of the issues right now this early in the $26 million for this particular area for the Laredo project, and the mayor will talk about this, will certainly help a lot to address the issues at this particular time.

In 1999, when Chairman David Laney came down to Laredo to make an announcement about the $1 billion -- new dollars for the border, I was not one of the ones that criticized him. I was one of the ones that stood with him and stood with the department. I said the amount of dollars was good. The only thing I asked for was the acceleration of the timetable and, again, I ask you-all again to please join Governor Perry to accelerate the time schedule. That will be a tremendous amount of -- of help for our border. This last session, as you know, Governor Perry signed a balance budget that included an increase of $1 billion of new dollars for the transportation funding. The legislature responded also by working on two propositions and I see those two propositions will be in the November ballot as joint propositions, Proposition 2 and Proposition 15.

I told my good friends at the Good Road Association that those -- those propositions have to be looked at as a package. Proposition 2 is a new issue for us because this will be the first time that the Department of Transportation will be putting dollars into pavement of colonias and that was a priority of the Governor and myself.

Proposition 15, as you know, is the Texas Mobility Fund and this will help build roads and -- and save lives, ease the gridlock, and as one of the reports that you-all put together, Texans spend a lot of time waiting in what we call highway parking lots, when they're waiting to move along. So this will go a long way. I also ask you -- and I've talked to Commissioner Williamson, and I know that yesterday Alan and some of the staff -- there is a rider and I ask you to please look at this rider. There was a rider that we added to the appropriation bill that also calls for the paving of colonia roads and I know we sat down with your staff yesterday. In fact, the Governor showed his commitment, showed up personally at the meeting to say that this was important and that we need to get the different partners so we can get the pavement for the colonias as soon as possible. So there's the proposition, but, at the same time, there is the rider.

And in conclusion, it worked simply because there's partners. Partners from Mayor Flores, from county -- from the County Judge Mercurio Flores -- Martinez. They're always together, working together. That working with the County Judge and the mayor and, of course, with our local officials and with your employees here and, of course, with the commissioners and with the private sectors, we have developed a -- a good partnership. This is -- there are challenges, but I always said that challenges create opportunities and the commission will provide the opportunities for the people on the border. So, again, I thank you for coming down to my hometown. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Thank you, Secretary Cuellar.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Are we going to get to cross-examine him?

MR. CUELLAR: Washington did that pretty good.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: As I mentioned earlier, it's an honor to have you here and thank you so much for taking time out of a very busy schedule. You do great work for this state. I believe that Senator Zaffirini's representative is here. Karen Mejia, are you here? Would you like to....

MS. MEJIA: Good morning. My name is Karen Mejia, and I'm the District Director for Senator Judith Zaffirini. She, unfortunately, could not attend today because of a previous family commitment. On behalf of Senator Zaffirini, I welcome the commission to Laredo and thank you for holding your meeting in our thriving border city. This event affords you an opportunity not only to experience firsthand our unique needs of the border, but also to see how wonderful the TxDOT Laredo District staff is. We know that we have the best district staff in Texas.

According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, truck crossings in Laredo have risen 116 percent from 1993 to 1999. Although the border receives many benefits from increased trade with Mexico, the cost of maintaining the infrastructure to accommodate is -- is an exponential problem. Senator Zaffirini was pleased to hear the announcement on Tuesday, July 24th, proposing a plan to advance a $26 million project to expand I-35 in Laredo from the design phase to the construction phase.

As a member of the Senate Finance Committee, Senator Zaffirini applauds that you are finding creative ways to utilize the $1 billion increase in appropriation they worked so hard to include in the fiscal year 2002-2003 appropriations bill.

The 77th Legislature addressed the state's transportation challenges and passed two bills and their corresponding resolutions that Senator Zaffirini was pleased to support and will be on the November ballot for voter approval that Secretary Cuellar referenced earlier. Moreover, as a member of the Conference Committee on Appropriations, Senator Zaffirini was able to ensure the inclusion of a rider she authored relating to local participation and creation of new border inspection state facilities. This rider requires TxDOT to sign an agreement with the governing board of the municipality in which the facility is to be located which states that a location, plans and implementation strategies for the proposed facility are acceptable to all parties involved.

With the border in mind, Senator Zaffirini will review the recommendations for the 2002 Unified Transportation Program that are now in the draft stage and were released for a 45-day comment period this week. She urges the commission and TxDOT to continue to making -- to make improving border infrastructure one of your top priorities. Thank you very much.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Next we will hear from Mayor Flores and Webb County Judge Mercurio Martinez. Welcome.

MAYOR FLORES: Thank you. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, it is, again, an honor for -- for me to be here and an honor to have you in my city. On behalf of the City of Laredo, welcome to all of you. It is an honor to have you, Chairman Johnson, Commissioner Nichols and Commissioner Williamson. We are -- we are quite honored and I think the little reception we had yesterday and, of course, the breakfast this morning that took me away from my grandson -- and I attended because I was very happy to do it -- can show you how excited we are to have you here. We also want to thank Director Heald and his staff for setting up this meeting. I understand what a task that can be, especially when you move out of town. But it gives us an opportunity to showcase Laredo, especially our Laredo district which was mentioned earlier.

Since 1994, the year that the NAFTA agreement was implemented, trade with Mexico has been nothing but a tremendous success for our nation, for Texas and especially for our city. Texas has benefitted the most from this agreement between Canada, the United States and Mexico. Canada and Mexico continue to be the number one and number two trading partners with the United States. I was recently in Detroit and got an opportunity to meet with several mayors from Canada and, of course, the mayor of Detroit and we discussed cross-border issues as it pertained to the northern border and as they pertain to the southern border.

Texas exports have increased by more than 100 percent since the trade agreement was implemented in January 1994. This increase has represented a 103 percent growth of state exports to Mexico and a 148 percent growth of state exports to Canada. These two countries will continue to be our leading trading partners in the years to come. We are very confident of that. What may change is who will be the leader. Canada, with roughly 30 million inhabitants, is a country with 50 percent of the population being 35 years and over. Mexico, on the other hand, has a population nearing 100 million. The Mexican national census state that 50 percent of its inhabitants are 22 years of age or younger. Clearly, the United States' economy will soon begin to look towards our southern partner as its major customer. NAFTA has and will continue to benefit the state of Texas and the entire nation. I can't say that enough.

The U.S.-Mexico border is the most frequently crossed border in the world and Texas has the longest international border of any state bordering either Mexico or Canada. The international crossings located in Texas handled 80 percent of all U.S.-Mexico overland trade. And trade between the United States and Mexico has grown from 81.5 billion at the end of '93 to 247.6 billion in the year 2000. Trade between the United States and Mexico grew by more than 50 billion between '99 and the year 2000. At this pace, there is no question that Mexico will soon become the number one trading partner with the United States.

It is not by chance or I think coincidence that you are holding your commission meeting here. For at the middle of all this trade between the United States and Mexico lies the city of Laredo. And because of our expertise -- and it has not been an easy task -- our ability to finance, our ability to manage and our ability to operate our international bridges with our partners, the federal government and the Texas Department of Transportation, will amass over 100 million as you very well know. It's an investment that was made for Laredo, for Texas and for the -- for the economy of the United States.

But we should note that this bridge that we just finished building, the World Trade Bridge, right now, as successful as it has been and continues to be, is only at 30 percent capacity. And that was a plan that we initiated. We have two commercial bridges, the World Trade Bridge and the Colombia Solidarity Bridge. They handle more than 40 percent of all overland trade between the United States and Mexico. Laredo is situated at Mile Marker 1 of Interstate Highway 35, Mile Marker 1 of U.S. Highway 59 and Mile Marker 1 of the new Ports to Plain Corridor.

Laredo has the most efficient and effective trade community in the world. In 1998, the U.S. Department of Commerce showed that Laredo handled U.S. imports from 70 countries and U.S. exports to 27 countries. Laredo is the future for Texas. The relationship between the United States and Mexico is still very young. Mexico is becoming a major player in the global economy as trade continues to grow. Between these two countries, so will the importance of the City of Laredo.

The City of Laredo and its sister city of Nuevo Laredo are constantly adapting to meet the needs of the increased trade. In March of this year, the U.S.-Mexico Chamber of Commerce honored both cities with the First Annual Bi-National Border Achievement Award. In order for Mexico and the United States to succeed in trade, our sister cities and its leaders must ensure that no obstacles exist.

Commissioners, we need your help. I believe that the future of Texas lies in your hands. The future of Texas is no longer about survival, it is about leadership. As trade grows, so does the need for infrastructure. Because efficient transportation of Laredo is important to the entire state's economy, federal and state funding needs to be directed to our community at it is -- at the rate that it is being done now and I think the key word that you have heard from some of our speakers, and I hope from others, will be accelerate, accelerate, accelerate. It's encouraging to listen to Governor Rick Perry stress the importance of accelerating highway dollars.

According to a recent U.S. Conference of Mayors report, Laredo ranked third in growth. Only Austin and Las Vegas outpaced our growth. We don't have casinoes and Dell computers does use our international bridges. In 1990 the population of Laredo's MSA was 134,000. Laredo's MSA is almost 200,000 and our population growth rate of 3.3 percent over the past decade is almost twice the rate of the State of Texas.

With the expansion of the U.S.-Mexico trade, Laredo can expect to remain one of the fastest growing metropolitan areas. The Texas State Data Center projects that Laredo's population will reach 400,000 by the year 2030. With tremendous growth comes the need for construction. Challenges which our city, which lies in the county, identified by TxDOT as a disadvantaged county, does not have the per capita property wealth to afford the infrastructure project vitally needed in our community. This places an incredible burden on our community to raise the required 20 percent matching funds to receive 80 percent funding. Since it is the Texas Transportation Commission who evaluates each application to determine the local government's ability and effort to meet the local match, we ask that you grant our project an automatic waiver for these matching requirements.

Our tax base is not able to afford the infrastructure investment vital to the future growth. Not only of our city, but the state as a whole. We need the state to assist us in creating a stronger Texas economy.

Yes, our city traffic is growing, but our traffic's final destination is in your cities. As you know, in April 2000, the city of Laredo moved all commercial traffic away from our downtown area and Lincoln Juarez Bridge. We have the opportunity to revitalize our downtown and our riverfront. Again, we need your assistance. The city of Laredo requests funds to rehabilitate the historic Ben Herrera home to preserve an important landmark in our city. The home, once rehabilitated, will be used as an office for the Laredo Metropolitan Planning Organization and to expand heritage tourist opportunities for downtown Laredo and the U.S.-Mexico border.

Phase I of these projects -- phase I of this project is currently under way thanks to your funds. Additional funds are warranted to complete the rehabilitation of this historic building in the tune of about 340,000. The City of Laredo and the Laredo Metropolitan Planning Organization submitted to you as well to the enhancement project of El Portal Riverfront scenic road and the bikeway/pedestrian facility along the Rio Grande and this is a statewide transportation enhancement program.

The (inaudible) project will establish a meaningful path of engagement with scenic Rio Grande, which was designated American Heritage River by executive order in 1997. This project is designed to enhance and protect the scenic, the history and the cultural and natural archeological aspect of the Rio Grande. The road will embrace a two-mile stretch of riverbank in downtown Laredo linking the Laredo Community College, which is the Old Fort McIntosh, to the historic Azteca neighborhood at Zacate Creek. The name, El Portal, signifies Laredo's role as a gateway to Mexico. The scenic road will pass underneath the Lincoln Juarez Bridge and the grateway to the Americas Bridge as well as the International Railroad Bridge and this is a $1,180,000 project.

When it comes to transportation, the state of Texas has not received its fair share. We understand that and we will continue to fight for the state. The general accounting office has stated that from '94 to '98, state of California, with two border counties, spent $1,246,000 in state and federal funds designated for border roadway or highway infrastructure with the state's share of being $144 million or 12 percent. The state of Texas, using the 23 counties that the JOA funds designated for border highways or roadways and infrastructure with the state's share being $541 million and 45 percent. There's something wrong with this picture.

I want to talk a little bit -- and I know I'm -- I'm -- I'm abusing of my time, but it's -- it may be the last time I talk to you in Laredo. The study estimates that where on the U.S. border, state highway systems was 113 million in '95 while we're on the U.S. now border highway systems was estimated at 62 million. There are 12,000 trucks traveling in and out of our city on a daily basis. Yet the Border and Corridor Programs continues to fund other states. We need TxDOT to stress the importance -- continue to stress the importance of our border projects by -- And I want to talk a little bit about the east-west rail traffic.

Under the Borders and Corridors Program, the city of Laredo has requested funding for the west Laredo multimodal trade corridors by using the funds to build grade separations. This project will allow for our systems to be able to travel into Laredo's industrial sector and allow access to the citizens who live west of Union Pacific Rail.

In '93, prior to NAFTA, loaded rail cars crossing into Laredo is 145,000. Laredo handled 185,000 loaded cars traveling south and 152,000 loaded cars traveling north. Seven years later, Laredo is handling more loaded rail cars traveling into the United States from Mexico than all trade by rail between the United States and Mexico prior to NAFTA that crossed at Laredo. This is exactly why these grade separations are needed. Rail traffic is growing. This commitment would be a huge commitment of $11 million.

During the 77th Legislative session, the Governor signed an appropriations bill that included Article VII, Section 56, and I think you heard, it is the intent of the Legislature, before funds are expended for the purpose of building a collate -- collated facility, which co-located facility which would serve as a commercial motor vehicle safety inspection, border inspection station or a centralized border inspection station that it being -- that it work with the local community. This is very important to us.

Lots of issues are important to our city and to our residents because they are important to the rest of the country. Safe trucks are no -- no exception. We've worked with the transportation industry in Nuevo Laredo to set up inspections of trucks before they enter the United States. They spent quite a bit of money setting up an inspection station plus we, in the city of Laredo, have ten certified CVSA police officers. Seven are active. They are trained and they are working with the municipal officers also in Nuevo Laredo.

The city of Laredo has visited with the Secretary of Communication & Transportation Office to offer to Mexico the ability to set up a weigh-in-motion station using the hardware from our own system on the Mexican side of the commercial bridges. This will allow commerical vehicles traveling north to be weighed before entering into the United States. City of Laredo has taken strong measures for many years to ensure the safety of U.S. and Mexican trucks and our statistics show this.

Even though federal inspectors continue to say that Mexican trucks are unsafe, total truck crashes in Webb County continue to fall. U.S. DOT states that in 1999 the county where most of the trade that crosses between the United States and Mexico and where Mexican trucks are allowed to travel inside the commercial zone of Cameron, Hidalgo, Webb, Maverick and El Paso, had a total of 535 crashes. This in comparison to counties in the interior of Texas such as Bexar County with 366 -- 316 total crashes; Dallas with 823, Harris County with 1,541; Tarrant County with 427; and Travis County with 295. They don't have Mexican trucks, we do. Out of the 535 total crashes in major border ports, Webb County had only 153 total crashes.

Every year we have fewer accidents due to commercial vehicles. Webb County is 40 miles wide and these total crashes did not all happen to Mexican trucks. The city of Laredo wants to guarantee its citizens a safe journey on every city street on our nation's highways. That is why we stress if an inspection station is to be built, that it be built on the highway to make sure that all commercial vehicles are safe regardless of their nationality or origin. Together we'll continue to benefit from NAFTA. Trade crossings through the port of Laredo will continue to grow. As this trade grows, so will the need for infrastructure.

Thank you very much for coming to my city, for allowing me this time. I know it was -- I was a little abusive, but I want you to know that we deserve it.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Problem is you don't have to deal with all those trucks from Oklahoma like we do.

MAYOR FLORES: Well, that's your problem.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Judge Martinez, welcome. It's a pleasure to have you.

JUDGE MARTINEZ: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and -- Chairman Johnson, Commissioners Nichols and Williamson. I will have a prior presentation and it also provides a little background as to the reason why we are so aggressively involved in -- in this particular project. As you've already been exposed to by Secretary State Cuellar and Mayor Flores, the trade that we have between United States and Mexico and, particular, Laredo being the largest inland port in the western hemisphere, we expect that trade to continue to grow even more aggressively and we feel very strongly that it's a matter of time when Mexico will become the number one trading partner of the United States, replacing Canada, as Mexico replaced Japan. Being when Japan was the second largest trading partner with the United States. And it simply means and tells us that we need to prepare and we need to prepare an infrastructure and part of this infrastructure is another international bridge, and it's already been acknowledged by Mayor Flores.

Webb County is 40 miles wide. That actually is -- presents itself even problems because we actually are the border with three Mexican states. The State of Tamaulipas, the State of Nuevo Leon and the State of Coahuila. And even though at this time we're presenting for the possible consideration of a fifth bridge, I think a sixth bridge, sooner or later, sometime in the future, will probably have to be planned somewhere in the State of Coahuila, which would be the northwest part of the county.

But we will present our observations in reference to the reason why we're proposing a fifth bridge at the present time. And the Commissioners Court for Webb County unanimously, and without question, is committed to filing for a presidential permit to construct an international bridge in Webb County. Therefore, the county has assembled an impressive team of engineers and consultants which is second to none on both sides of the border. Webb County proposes this bridge for the benefit of its residents and the guests while at the same time focusing on the international trade between the United States, Mexico and Canada, and we want to be part of the team that is progressive as well as aggressive.

Webb County, with a population of 193,117, which is the 2000 census, is the sixth largest county in Texas. Laredo, the county seat, is the United States' largest inland port of entry and Webb County enjoys easy access to the rest of the United States and Canada via Interstate 35, the Laredo-Corpus Christi International Trade Corridor facilities overseas, the trade through the Corpus Christi ship channel.

The City of Laredo and Mexico currently share four international bridges. Bridge 1, the Gateway to the Americas; Bridge 2, the Juarez-Lincoln International Bridge; Bridge 3, the Colombia Solidarity Bridge; Bridge 4, the World Trade Bridge. Webb County's proposed international bridge will be located in south Laredo. The bridge is initially proposed for noncommercial vehicular traffic with sufficient infrastructure provided to accommodate commercial traffic in the future when warranted. The existing and the proposed capital improvements in the areas of transportation infrastructure on both sides of the river make this site ideal for Webb County's sponsorship of the fifth international bridge.

South Laredo and Nuevo Laredo are currently experiencing phenomenal residential growth. This growth and the potential for increased commercial activity dictates a very real need for the proposed international bridge. The growth in south Laredo is evidenced further by the transportation projects that are currently approved in the Transportation Improvement Program, or TIP, of the Laredo urban transportation study.

Two major projects currently identified in the TIP were specifically planned to facilitate the structure of the construction of the proposed international bridge. The proposed interloop extension, also known as the Quatro Mientras Road, and the outer loop are scheduled for funding in fiscal year 2004. Both tie into U.S. Highway 83 at the proposed site of the new bridge. Moreover, Webb County holds the Certificate of Convenience and Necessity, known as CCN, for this area which gives the county the authority to provide water and sewer services to this area. The Urban Plan of the Dos Laredos 1994, and it is an award-winning document that provides a guide for the orderly physical development of Laredo, Nuevo Laredo and the surrounding area. And the Urban Plan of the Dos Laredos was adopted by both entities in 1994. And of particular importance is the long-range transportation elements of this plan.

The long-range thoroughfare plan in the Urban Plan of the Dos Laredos 1994 designates this as the site for an international bridge. While the City of Laredo's long-range thoroughfare plan has been revised numerous times since the adoption of the (inaudible) Urbana, the revisions have all been in north Laredo. The proposed transportation infrastructure for south Laredo and the area adjacent to Webb County's proposed international bridge remains unchanged from the long-range thoroughfare plan that was proposed in the Urban Plan of the Dos Laredos in 1994. The city of Laredo may or may not participate with us in this bridge. But Webb County is moving ahead and I want to present to you what we have already achieved.

Webb County has contracted with the following engineers and consultants to provide preliminary engineering and environmental impact studies for the proposed bridge: Dan Baldwin Engineering Corporation, Mejia Engineering, Blanton & Associates, Hickey & Associates, Tobin International and Raba-Kistner Consultants.

Now, this frame depicts the overall layout of GSA and the future expansion of the site and the following three frames show various layout options for consideration and demonstrate the flexibility that is allotted for GSA's requirements. Option 1, option 2 and option 3.

Webb County has demonstrated its commitment to this project by contracting the professional services of engineering firms to perform the following: the presidential permit application, the project planning permits, the project and quantities that are part of it and involving project coordination meetings, preliminary engineering schematic, preliminary GSA facilities, environmental data, preliminary bridge design and preliminary construction cost estimate. This is the proposed project schedule.

Webb County officials have already met with Mayor Garza-Garza of Nuevo Laredo at the time and recently met with and received support for our project from Governor Tomas Yarrington of the state of Taumalipas. We've also met with Senator Oscar Gilbert Gutierrez, the fellow senator of the state of Tamaulipas, former mayor of the city of Reynosa. We've also met with high-ranking officials which includes Dr. Soto, who is a chairman of the economic advisor to President Fox. We have met with Mr. David Randolph -- by the way, we also met recently at length with the border -- the north border czar appointed by President Fox, the former governor of the state of Baja, California, now the commissioner for -- for U.S.-Mexico Border Affairs and that is Commissioner Ernesto Hugo Appe. We've also met with him. We met with Mr. David Randolph of the United States Department and will be setting up other meetings with other United States federal agents shortly. And based on our meeting with Governor Tomas Yarrington, we will be indicating the identity of our Mexican counterpart that will be performing the engineering for this project in our next briefing to you. Hopefully. Soon.

We would like to emphasize that Webb County has assembled an exceptionally talented team of engineers and consultants to achieve our objective of obtaining a presidential permit. They include the following procedures and reknowned consultants: James Francis of Francis Enterprise out of Dallas; Charlie Black, the president and CEO of Black, Kelly, Strauss, Healy & Associates out of Washington, D.C.; the Person-Marks Company, and if you will recall, they were the ones that took the lead into what we now enjoy as the North American Free Trade Agreement. Roth Allen of Allen & Company out of Dallas. This is a gentleman that actually was responsible over a three-year period in the presidential election of President Fox; and Gibson, Gonzalez Associates out of Alexandria, Virginia. Mr. Gibson, former cochair of the BiNational Conference on International Bridges.

Again, it cannot be over emphasized that Webb County has assembled a great and a seasoned group of engineers and consultants, both technical and otherwise that cannot be beat. And I can assure you that Webb County possesses the financial capability and the resources that are necessary for this project to be successfully finalized. For your information, the County of Webb has a tax role of a little shy of $6 billion. Our total debt is $46 million which is under one percent based on -- on rations. So you can see that we do have the financial resources.

We will be aggressively pursuing to put this plan into action in a professional and expeditious manner and by accomplishing this, we will continue to highlight the strong emphasis in free trade that has been advocated by both presidents, Vicente Fox and George W. Bush, and we will continue to -- to update you at future meetings as to our progress. And we certainly want to thank you for your attention. Thank you very much.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Mayor and Judge, thank you very much for those wonderful presentations. Do either of my colleagues have any questions that you would like to ask of the Mayor or the County Judge? And if you do, would you please ask the questions to be answered by yes or no?

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: I wouldn't risk it.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: The next part of the program is a report from our district. As you know, this is a very thriving and growing district in the overall scheme of things and Luis Ramirez, the district engineer, has done a superlative job of leading the effort. It is not easy to take a district and gear it up with the impact NAFTA has had plus the additional funding that has come this way and, basically, maintain the same size of work load. All three of our border districts have done a magnificent job of scoping up their work and product effort and it's going to show and continue to show and continue to show. Luis, thank you so much. We look forward to your presentation.

MR. RAMIREZ: Hate to give you some more exercise, but would you-all please move to the front here so we can show you our presentation? Commissioner Johnson, Commission member Nichols, Commission member Williamson and Mr. Heald, welcome to Laredo District of the Texas Department of Transportation. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the Laredo District with you.

Our district was created in 1993 by the Texas legislature and is one of 25 districts in the state of Texas. We cover 15 cities within eight counties. We have three area offices located in Del Rio, Carrizo Springs and Laredo, and we are the only district that borders three Mexican states, the states of Coahuila, Nuevo Leon and Tamaulipas. Fort Chihuahua is bordered by the El Paso District.

At 15,084 square miles, we are the sixth largest geographic district in the state and also larger than the entire state of Maryland. And other states as well. There are eight vehicular and two railroad international bridge crossings in the district starting with the upstream (inaudible) district. The first bridge is located at Lake Amistad Dam across the Mexican state of Coahuila and in Del Rio is a bridge that connects with Cuidad Acuna in the state of Coahuila. Downstream of Del Rio is Eagle Pass Bridge No. 1,which connects with Piedras Negras, also in the state of Coahuila. Also in Eagle Pass is the Camino Real Bridge. This bridge was inaugurated on September 13th -- September 3rd, excuse me, 1999. Downstream of Eagle Pass is the Laredo Columbia Bridge. It connects both the Mines Road and the Columbia toll road on the U.S. side with Mexican Highway No. 2. It is the only bridge crossing between Texas and the state of Nuevo Leon.

Several miles downstream is the World Trade Bridge which allows only commercial traffic to cross between Laredo and Nuevo Laredo in the state of Tamaulipas. This bridge is open -- was opened for business on April the 15th of 2000 and has relieved the southbound traffic congestion on I-35 tremendously, as the mayor mentioned. The Columbia and World Trade Bridges are the only bridges where commercial traffic can cross between Laredo and Nuevo Laredo.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: 'd like to ask a question. Can you go back to that slide?

MR. RAMIREZ: Sure.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: That toll pike-looking thing on the left, is that the international -- customs inspection?

MR. RAMIREZ: Yes, sir. To give you an idea, at the top middle is the bridge. Of course, that's the Rio Grande. And then, as you come towards the bottom of the screen as you keep going north into the U.S., and on the left side is the -- the phase 1 inspection where, initially check you, the Customs will check you and decide whether you need to go to secondary. So that's, basically, what's called primary. And if -- and if you do get selected to go to secondary, you'll go in here into this area in here and these are docks. It's hard to see here. But they'll back them up and they have stevedores. Stevedores park outside the facility U.S. Customs (inaudible) secure and the perimeter fence all added. A skid door will go in there and they work for the forwarding companies, so if U.S. Customs says, 'Well, I want to -- I want to see what you have in the front of your truck, the stevedores will have to unload it so they can send the dogs in there or check the broccoli for bugs or whatever they're going to check.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Who owns the land, the greenery to the right?

MR. RAMIREZ: All of this?

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Yeah.

MR. RAMIREZ: This is U.S. Customs. The area, I should say, bounded by this road back all around here will be federal government, GSA, and on the right side, back over here, is the city of Laredo. However, the city of Laredo built the entire facility and it's leasing it to GSA. Am I right, mayor?

MAYOR FLORES: Yes.

MR. RAMIREZ: So this is a little bit different, for one, I guess, is unique. This one is unique from that standardpoint,that the city of Laredo decided to do that for the federal government. The city, normally, is on your right side and federal government on the left side.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Thank you, Luis.

JUDGE MARTINEZ: May I interrupt, Commissioner? I think it's important to know -- I think it's important to know that on a recent visit that we all met, the -- in that particular bridge, there is cameras that are on all of those -- all around that area that actually can zoom in all the way up to the Mexican side. It's very powerful cameras and they can actually identify a specific truck as it crosses all the way in and follow it until it reaches the Customs. Those cameras are within the facility itself and in a secured area where they have different television monitors and can identify every specific area within that compound or that complex. They actually have individuals from U.S. Customs that sit in within that secured monitor -- TV-monitored room and can follow every truck that is coming in from Mexico or is actually leaving from the U.S. on to Mexico.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Okay. Please hold the microphone 'cause you or the mayor might want to answer some of these questions I'm going to ask Luis. So right now there's a little bit of a controversy between our department -- Controversy is maybe not the right word. Perhaps the right word is we are having an intense discussion between our department, the mayor, maybe the county judge, I don't know, the Department of Public Safety and the U.S. Government broken up into Customs and the lunatics in Congress and everybody else. But not all of them, just some of them.

No one seems to have an idea about what to do -- but everybody else can sign up on this border inspection business. For all the time I've spent on this, Mr. Chairman, this is the first aerial photo I've seen. And so I'm kind of curious, judge, why would anyone who lived in Webb County object to TxDOT inspecting all of the trucks that come across this bridge somewhere in that green area if they've got to all come through that toll-looking thing anyway?

MAYOR FLORES: That's a great question and we have a great answer. The -- We have several activities on that bridge that are nonrevenue-generating activities. Customs inspections, INS inspections --

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: On the bridge? On the bridge?

MAYOR FLORES: On the facility itself.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: On the bridge?

MAYOR FLORES: The bridge itself. On the facility itself.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Okay. So you have several activities within this facility but not on the bridge?

MAYOR FLORES: Right.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Okay. Thank you.

MAYOR FLORES: We -- we consider all that facility part of the bridge.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: I know you do, mayor, but I don't necessarily agree with that.

MAYOR FLORES: Okay. All right. That's fine.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: I'm trying to understand what happened.

MAYOR FLORES: That's fine. Once the truck pass a -- the first inspection and it -- We have been told by Customs that they don't want to compromise the integrity of their inspection by having anyone else touch that truck until it gets to their inspection. And they're not here to answer this, but this is what we've been told.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: But, mayor -- but, mayor, I'm not interested in what Customs has said. I'm interested in the question I asked. Why would any citizen in Laredo, not Customs -- why would any citizen in Laredo object to trucks being inspected in that green space if every truck coming across the bridge has got to go through the toll turnstile anyway?

MAYOR FLORES: It's a matter of delay. We cannot have anymore delays on the -- on any of these facilities. We've already worked -- we're working with Customs and have been working with Customs for many, many years to try to get as many inspectors out there to prevent delays caused by staff shortages. So now we have -- we're close to the amount of inspectors that we should have so we -- but we continue to have a lot of delays. Huge delays that are costing a lot of money.

Now, if a truck in that area --

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: I'm sorry. I can't hear. Somebody else is talking.

MAYOR FLORES: I'm sorry. If a -- if a truck gets put out of commission in that area there, it's going to create -- the way that it was built, it was -- and I -- I -- you're looking at the green area. So once it comes through Customs, it would go back to inspection of -- of the truck itself. That whole area there is compromised and -- and because of the flow that it has.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Yeah, but your objections as a citizen of Webb County is because of traffic disruption, traffic delay.

MAYOR FLORES: No. Traffic delay.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Traffic delay.

MAYOR FLORES: Traffic delay.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Okay. I just -- You know, I've been waiting for this opportunity -- you and I have spent a lot of time talking about this.

MAYOR FLORES: That's right.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: And -- and the Governor and this commission has done everything it can to patiently cooperate with Laredo and Webb County about this matter.

MAYOR FLORES: Right.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: And we've shown great honor and respect for Senator Zaffirini over this matter. But we're coming to a point, mayor, where the United States Congress is going to just simply say either inspect those trucks on the river or they can't come across. And that's what's going to happen.

MAYOR FLORES: Right. I understand.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: So what is the mayor of Laredo and the county judge of Webb County going to say when we have to close that bridge to commercial traffic?

MAYOR FLORES: Well, that -- that -- that'll be fine. You can close the bridge to commercial traffic. It won't affect Laredo as much as the state of Texas and -- and the rest of the country.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Well, I think that's why we're concerned, Mayor.

MAYOR FLORES: Right. Right. But I can tell you right now that putting an inspection station in that facility is a very bad idea because you're already compromising the flow of traffic as it is right now, with the necessary inspections of Customs and INS. Inspecting the Mexican trucks only is a bad idea.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Well, mayor, you know, I agree with you. If I had my way, there wouldn't be any border. But that's not what's going to happen. What I'm trying to convey to you is the commission, the Governor, has worked patiently trying to figure this out. But it's not going to be in our control soon, I don't think.

MAYOR FLORES: I believe that as well.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: I think -- I think Congress is going to say no inspection, no commercial traffic. That's just the way life is. I think that's what's going to happen.

MAYOR FLORES: But it does not have to inspect on that facility.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Well, what is -- what is there to the right of that facility? Is that not the City of Laredo?

MAYOR FLORES: Yes.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: So we can build over there?

MAYOR FLORES: Cindy. This is Cindy Coyar, assistant city manager. She's the project director.

MS. COYAR: I did want to go back a little bit to that green space that we talked about earlier. That is the phase 2 of this project. As was mentioned earlier, this bridge right now is counting only 30 percent. That's where we are right now. And the area to the right is a city facility, is city property, but there is not enough room to create any type of inspection station at that point.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Okay. So the -- so the area currently occupied by the federal government is out?

MS. COYAR: Yes, that's right.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: The area to the right isn't large enough so it's out?

MS. COYAR: Right.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: So, therefore, the city and the county, I guess, judge -- I guess the county agrees with this, concludes that the border inspection station must be moved further inland in the United States?

MAYOR FLORES: That's right. Away from that facility.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: The United States Congress has said, "It ain't gonna happen." So I don't want to argue with you. I just want to, in a public forum, make you perfectly aware of what I've been trying to say for six months. There will come a day where Laredo and Webb County and the state of Texas cannot have what it wants, which is inspection of international traffic deep inland United States. That is not going to happen.

MAYOR FLORES: I'm not saying deep inland. I'm saying just not on that facility and there is -- that is -- that is the problem here that the decisions that are being made in Washington are being made without counting on the locals here who know the flow of traffic. If they want us to inspect trucks -- I mean, you can tell by our numbers that we know how to -- how to keep those safe trucks -- how to assure that we have safe trucks on our city streets. We know how to do that. We -- Our only --- our only impediment has been enough manpower and enough funding to do it. But if we were given the charge to do it, because Congress was going to come do it, I guarantee you that it'll happen overnight because it's already happening today, little by little.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Mayor, your solution, even if it's working and it appears to me that it is, your solution then assumes an international truck comes across and can operate in your city until it can get to an inspection point you designated in your city, correct?

MAYOR FLORES: Yes.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: So it's been allowed to come inland United States and operate at some level before it gets inspected?

MAYOR FLORES: It's going to come into -- it's coming right now into the city of Laredo.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Right. And I'm saying --

MAYOR FLORES: And into the commercial zone, which is eight miles -- See, what I'm saying is that it -- that it does -- that to get it inspected before it leaves a commercial zone.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: I know. Your -- your approach -- and I admire it -- and, frankly, I wish, again, there was no border at all. But your approach suggests that this area, a part of the United States called Laredo, is somehow different from the rest of the United States. So this truck -- this international truck can enter your city and get inspected in your city and operate in your city maybe until it does get inspected. Before it exits your city, it will be inspected somehow.

MAYOR FLORES: That's right.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: And I'm just telling you I don't think the United States government is going to do that.

MAYOR FLORES: Well, and -- and -- and I'm glad you're telling me that because that is the fear that Laredo has had, that perhaps this president and this congress is not going to help us out with the kinds of international traffic flow that -- problems that we have continuously had, and -- and -- and that's why we're trying to -- to get in front of this issue so that we can explain to them what we're doing on a local basis that is working and that Mexican trucks are not the only unsafe trucks. I was in Detroit -- I mentioned to you earlier, I was in Detroit last month at the international bridges. Every one of the trucks that I saw would have not crossed here at our international -- They would have been stopped by DOT. Every one of the trucks that I saw.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Well, mayor --

MAYOR FLORES: And yet we don't have that kind of problem here. But nobody's talking about the northern border inspections stations.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Well, mayor, let me first say that I wouldn't lump the President and Congress into the same -- I think the President's doing all he can to accommodate us. The President is of Texas, he believes in open borders. There's no question that what he wants is not too far from what you want. I speak more of Congress than I do the President.

Now, I think the general feeling -- and I don't speak for the President. I think the general feeling is he's prepared to veto any statutory effort, but there's more than statute and the President doesn't control the Congress. Our parties -- my party doesn't control the Congress and all I'm trying to get you to focus on is I think there's going to be a day pretty soon where we, in Texas, and you in Laredo and you in Webb County, and even all these -- just the Laredo district, we're not going to be able to do exactly what we want to do like we've been doing, and I'm trying to figure out how to get this border inspection station business resolved in a way that I feel like the border can remain open and be viable for your city, for your county and for our state. One one other question for you and I don't know --

MAYOR FLORES: And I appreciate that. I really do.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: I don't want to give the audience the impression that you and I are arguing.

MAYOR FLORES: No. No.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: We have very similar feelings about this.

MAYOR FLORES: Right.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: But I have one more point-blank question. What would happen if we just moved all interstate traffic, that is traffic not destined to load or unload or do some business in Laredo, what if we just routed all that up to the -- what's that toll road up north? Columbia Toll road? What if we moved all international in transit trucks up there? How would you do that?

MAYOR FLORES: You have to know that the city of Laredo gets the toll from -- from all the bridges because we own all the international bridges. What would happen then is -- and -- and the Judge mentioned that and I think Luis Ramirez did as well. The -- the Columbia Bridge is in the State of Nuevo Leon and custom brokers, most of them, work in the State of Taumalipas and it's a whole different politica, if you will, with the custom workers and the custom brokers and the freight forwarders that work on this bridge. It's one of the reasons they haven't used the Columbia Bridge as much as -- as we would like them to.

Using the Columbia Bridge and -- and going directly from Mexico to wherever it is they're going and -- and taking the toll road would be an entirely business decision to the trucking industry. We have talked many times to the trucking industry and I talked on an every 90-day basis to the six -- the heads of the six largest trucking companies and they're telling me that they're trying to cut costs because they're having -- especially now, (inaudible) they have some problems.

Any additional cost that they will incur because they're going on the toll road will not work. So they're looking at the straightest -- the straightest route. They're looking at the least expensive route. For them, miles are money and time is -- is money for them and as well as the truck drivers. That's why the drayage system that we have in Laredo works so well because you don't have the high-paid long-haul driver having to wait in line in Customs. You, in fact, have a lesser-paid drayage driver having to wait in -- in Customs.

The level of -- of stress for the long-haul driver is to come from Chicago to Laredo safely thousands of miles, so is the guy from Mexico City that's coming to Laredo. But at that time, they unload their truck, they send it on to a drayage truck, the driver of that drayage truck, his main stress level, is to cross back and forth every day carrying to and fro loaded -- loaded trucks. And so that -- in the industry itself has an economic way of -- of doing this. So are you going -- are you going to inspect today -- If -- if there was an inspection station out there, will you be inspecting a truck that is -- that is going further south --

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: We just found the source of our interference. Your grandson checking you.

MAYOR FLORES: That's right.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Let me -- let me pose a question.

MAYOR FLORES: So you -- so you see what I'm saying?

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Yeah.

MAYOR FLORES: We're not going to inspect a Mexican truck that is going to go deep into United States and our system today is not going to change, according to the industry, and we're not listening to the industry.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Well, maybe I asked the question wrong. Let me rephrase it. It seems to me there are two types -- not kinds, but types of truck traffic. There's truck traffic bound for the Laredo commercial zone to do business.

MAYOR FLORES: Right.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: And there's truck traffic bound for some point deep inland Mexico or deep inland United States.

MAYOR FLORES: Not today, but yes.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: What -- what would be the Mayor and the Judge's viewpoint of TxDOT saying, "Okay. Let's help Laredo and perhaps the rest of --" what I would like to call the lower border "-- let's help them develop a commercial zone where they manage their business inside that zone, but a truck knows that it can't exit that zone inland United States or whatever the law is in Mexico, inland Mexico. It can only operate -- it can only get to the zone and operate within the zone.

MAYOR FLORES: Well, that exists today. We have a commercial zone.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Well, let me finish. And then we say any truck that's international is routed to the turnpike and there's an inspection station on the turnpike that affixes their international permits. What would your viewpoint of that be?

MAYOR FLORES: As long as it's not near our international facility.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Okay.

MAYOR FLORES: And crossing our facility.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Perhaps we've all done some good by talking about this a little bit.

MAYOR FLORES: Right. As long as it's not -- and I assure you that that will add cost to any Mexican truck or any American truck and they'll be -- they'll be sure -- they'll be darn sure that they've got, you know, all the -- their inspections done and, in fact, today, as I mentioned, we have the police officers who are CVSA certified. So they're doing inspections within the City of Laredo and -- and what we're doing right now with the Mexicans is they're inspecting their trucks on the Mexican side. Once they inspect and they get -- and they fix everything they have to fix in pesos, not in dollars, on the Mexican side and they come over here and then we inspect to confirm that that inspection has -- has not only that -- you know, been validated, but it is a CVSA-type inspection.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Is it less -- less costly to repair and inspect in pesos?

MAYOR FLORES: Absolutely.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Well, why weren't -- aren't we sending our trucks over there and letting them get inspected?

MAYOR FLORES: They tried. They tried.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Well, aren't you so gracious to allow us to have this dialogue right in the middle of your presentation?

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Luis, I'm going to ask one question about the layout. Within the periphery road interior, how much land is there?

MAYOR FLORES: 200 acres.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: How much land is the undeveloped green space and what's the anticipated use of that?

MR. RAMIREZ: Back over here?

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: No, the -- the unused green space.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Cindy told us --

MS. COYAR: Mr. Chairman, it's phase 2 and right now, again, it's in the possession of the federal government. It's been deeded over to the General Services Administration so they can control it. They are paying us annually payments, you know, for the lease, as we mentioned. We don't have a projected date other than the couple of years that they will proceed to do phase 2 depending on, again, the capacity that they continue to handle in phase 1.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: In anticipation of phase 2 is more Customs --

MS. COYAR: Yes, sir.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: -- inspections?

MS. COYAR: Yes, sir.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: One hypothetical question. Assuming that the Congress of the United States says all trucks will be inspected at the border, what is your estimate of the land need that would be necessary to accommodate that request, but also be large enough to not necessarily inhibit the flow of commercial traffic to and from Mexico over the bridge?

MAYOR FLORES: Mr. Chairman, if the Congress says that all trucks ought to be inspected on the border, I'm a border city, so I'll put the inspection station somewhere within the city, not at the facilities here.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Well, my question is how much land do you perceive would be necessary to do that that it would not disrupt, unnecessarily, traffic?

MAYOR FLORES: I believe TxDOT has a better answer of that question than I do because I think you need a lot of land -- Once you get all those monsters coming -- and this is a very slow day there (referring to picture slide). Once you get all these monsters in the number that are coming across, it's very difficult to -- to -- to limit the space. You really need a lot of space and I think Mr. Wueste and others have a plan that we have looked at and, you know, have left it to the experts for that. But seems to me that they need quite a bit of land.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Ed, on the work that Texas A & M and Texas has done on the design of the prototypical border crossing that they've been empowered to conceptually develop, what is the land mass that's under?

MR. WUESTE: Okay, actually, we got two different deals going. We got local architect, Juan Homero Sanchez's firm, that's actually designing the safety inspection facility. The work, the -- TTI CTR is another -- another parallel effort going on. We have -- they have anticipated that if -- if the stations could be built just outside the Customs exit gate, which is right here, right down in here on the property owned by Fasty Oil, 15 acres is what they need for the facility if -- if it can be located right in this area right here. They're also looking at this area down in here, and I'm going on memory, but seems like it's about 28 acres that you'd need back down in here and there's also another location back over in here. It's similar. But the most ideal property for DPS is right down here.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: And that's --

MR. WUESTE: Fifteen acres.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: And they don't necessarily need the other 28, do they?

MR. WUESTE: No.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Thank you.

MAYOR FLORES: Mr. Chairman, I might add that -- I might add again that if we put the inspection station anywhere within this bridge, because of the system that's in place today and, you know, President Bush and President Fox talked about opening borders and that's a great concept and a great political statement, but the devil's in the details and -- and what the trucking industry is telling us and the trade community is telling us, it's not going to happen any time soon en mass. It'll happen a little bit at a time when it's convenient and when it's economically feasible. So what's going to happen is the amount of land is not as much an issue as it is for the private landowners because they have other plans and that's why they donated the land to the City of Laredo and in their deed it says, "we donate the use -- this for commercial purposes," but -- but in addition to that, you're going to inspect 2,500 trucks over a period of time and then that's it and it's the same 2,500 trucks coming back and forth, coming back and forth. What happens to the other 12,000 truckers that are within on our city limits that are coming in from out of town? Those are the trucks I want inspected.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Well, see, I think that we're -- what we're trying to formulate by having this dialogue is some way -- and I -- we can't speak for each us, but I think that the three of us would like to have some concept of how the dialogue with the President and with our members of Congress about, perhaps, a different solution than -- than even -- something along the lines you and I have discussed in the past about differentiating between the Laredo commercial zone and in-transit trucks.

MAYOR FLORES: Right.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: I mean, we just -- we think maybe that might be the key to resolving. And I want to thank you, Luis, for letting us interrupt your presentation to have this international conference on how to solve the southern border dilemma.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: And mine's not blunt concern. I think it echoes where Commissioner Williamson is coming from is there looms a day, perhaps soon, that this decision will not be made at city council or county court or transportation commission, but will be made in -- in -- outside the borders of this state by people who are not as familiar with what goes on, and I think that's what we want to avoid if we're able to do.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: And perhaps even could be said, I mean, the raw fact of the matter is they don't even have our economic interest at heart.

MAYOR FLORES: Exactly. That's very true.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: And I don't know that I'd get mad at the guy that represents part of Minnesota or a gal that represents part of New York for wanting to choke commercial traffic in the southern United States 'cause it's not in their interest for us to -- I mean, the very worst thing that can happen to the rest of the country, in terms of economic competition, would be for Fox and Bush just to declare the border didn't exist anymore. That would be the worst thing that could happen for them, suddenly all that competition, that -- that reduced cost of labor, that -- the more efficient and effective way that Texans and northern Mexicans operate, all that becomes competition. So....

MAYOR FLORES: There -- there is a study that shows -- and because Laredo -- because these two bridges handle 700 of the 1,000 fortune companies with goods passing through Laredo, this is a study that shows that this activity at the border, not only this crossing, but the -- the -- the Texas border is accounting for over 700,000 jobs in the United States and $15 billion in wages. So if you choke this border, there's going to be people out of jobs in Boise, Idaho, and I showed the mayor of Boise, Idaho, exactly what I meant and he's on board with me now. Those are the kinds of -- the message that we've been saying to Congress and to the U.S. Conference of Mayors.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Thank you, Luis.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Thanks for your indulgence.

MR. RAMIREZ: One deep breath and we'll go to the next diagram. The Gateway to the Americas Bridge, along with the Juarez-Lincoln Bridge between Laredo and Nuevo Laredo are noncommercial traffic bridges. Both bridges join Texas with the state of Tamaulipas. Going back to Eagle Pass, the Union Pacific has a railroad crossing with Piedras Negras, you see here on the left side of the slide. And then the other railroad crossing in the district is the Texas Mexican Railroad between Laredo and Nuevo Laredo.

TxDOT's mission is to provide the safe, effective and efficient movement of people and goods. I will now address how our district works toward that mission. I will address the mission based mainly on three counties in our district that border Mexico. Between 1993 and 1999, the entire state of Texas saw an increase of 27 percent in total vehicle miles traveled. In Webb County, which is Laredo, we saw a 47 percent increase. In Maverick County, Eagle Pass, the increase was 39 percent and Val Verde County, Del Rio, the increase was 31 percent. As you can see, all the increases are above the statewide increase.

This graph shows increase in the truck miles traveled. Between 1993 and 1999, the entire state of Texas saw an increase of 48 percent in truck miles traveled. In Webb County, that increase was 63 percent; in Maverick County, the increase was 61 percent; in Val Verde County, Del Rio, the increase was 71 percent. As you can see, all the local increases are well above the statewide increase. Even with these large increases in traffic, we continue to move traffic in a fairly effective manner.

Efficiency. Through last month, our district calendar contracted almost $200 million of highway construction, $195.6 million to be exact. This ranks us 11th out of 25 districts in the state, based on construction contracts. Some of the -- some of the districts, which have less highway work -- and my colleague out here today chewed me out to mention that. The one that has less work than -- than we do is Corpus Christi. As you can see, Lubbock, Waco, Lufkin, Tyler, Abilene, some fairly large districts compared to our -- our size.

In addition to the $200 million construction workload that requires quality and monitoring -- quality control, excuse me, and monitoring, we also have the plan and design for new highway projects. We have to maintain existing highways and we have to operate them as well. Even though we have the 11th largest workload in TxDOT, we do all of this work with an allotment of 280 employees. This number is the third lowest of all 25 districts. I am proud of the efficiency of my employees. They are, without a doubt, the hardest working employees in the Texas Department of Transportation and I'd like to publicly thank them for their hard work and dedication as public servants. Thank you.

Safety. In an earlier slide I stated the increase in traffic from 1993 to 1999. Today there are substantially more vehicle -- vehicle miles traveled throughout the state. In comparison, statewide between 1993 and 1999, the state of Texas saw a decrease of crashes of 21 percent. Within our eight-county district, the decrease was more substantial at 25 percent. Statewide, fatalities increased only two percent. Within our district, we saw a decrease of 18 percent.

I have shown our district has assisted TxDOT as a whole in meeting its mission, but we can't rest on our past accomplishments. We must continue to improve on our effectiveness, efficiency and safety for the benefit of the traveling public. You see here how much TxDOT has invested in the Laredo area between fiscal years 1994 and 2000. This almost $300 million figure includes the $30 million SIB loan that TxDOT made to city of Laredo to assist with the funding of the World Trade Bridge. By the way, this was the first major SIB loan approved by TxDOT in the entire state of Texas. Based on current funding levels, we can expect an additional $240 million investment on highways between 2001 and 2005 to include priority 1 and backlog problems as well as priority 2 projects for a total of $538 million for the Laredo area.

In Eagle Pass, our investment was $37 million between fiscal year 1994 and 2000, and we plan an additional 78 through fiscal year 2005 for a total of 115 million. In Del Rio, our investment was 32 million between '94 and 2000 and we plan an additional 69 million through 2005 for a total of 101 million. I know these are a lot of numbers, but bear with me. Overall and including the $30 million SIB loan, TxDOT has or will have invested almost $1 billion within the eight-county Laredo District between 1994 and 2005. If we add Governor Perry's announcement of a couple of days ago of 46 million, we're almost -- we're almost at the 1 billion. And I told my folks that I wasn't going to retire till we hit 1 billion, so, Wes, I might be right behind you in retirement.

I'd like to close by thanking this commission and TxDOT administration for the continued support of the Laredo District and the Texas-Mexico border. With that, I'll answer any questions at this time as long as they don't pertain to the border safety inspection facility.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Luis, that was an extremely impressive presentation and you and everyone in the district are to be congratulated on a job extremely well done. You managed to get that (inaudible) and the amount of work and the number of employees that you have, it's just extraordinary and we're grateful to you.

I think the next items on the agenda are to move into the regular part of our meeting, which brings us to the approval of the minutes of our Commission meeting in June. Are there any additions, deletions, corrections that need to be made to those minutes?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: I move to accept.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: I second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: There's been a second. All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carries.

Wes, I will turn it over to you for the regular part of our agenda. I would like to announce to everyone that the commission will go into Executive Session at 11:30 so we might not be completed -- might not have completed the meeting, but I wanted to alert you to that fact that we'll go into Executive Session and then -- we'll recess the main part of the meeting, go to Executive Session and then reconvene the meeting and complete the meeting and/or adjourn the meeting if we've completed our business. Mr. Heald.

MR. HEALD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We'll move on with the business at hand and, staff, if you're ready and move as quick as we can, perhaps finish by 11:30.

Starting off with Agenda Item 2 under Aviation, Dave Fulton.

MR. FULTON: Thank you, Wes. Commissioners. This minute order contains a request for grant funding approval for airport improvement project at the Montgomery County airport. The request is for phase 1 funding of an Airport and taxiway project needed to open up a new area of the airport.

Estimated cost of the project is $142,000 -- 128,000 federal, 14,000 local. Estimated cost of phase 2, which will be presented at a later date, is approximately 2.5 million. A public hearing was held on June 4th of this year. No comments were received. Our division would recommend approval of this minute order.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Dave, this -- you and I visited on this particular project. Are we satisfied now that it meets all the high standards that we would have for any funding?

MR. FULTON: I believe it does. I believe the private/public sector division of financing is appropriate, yes, sir.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Great. Is there a motion?

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: So moved.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carries. Thank you.

MR. HEALD: Agenda Item Number 3, Public Transportation, would have five minute orders I believe we will defer the first one and so start with 3b, Margot Massey.

MS. MASSEY: I'm Margot Massey, Public Transportation Division. Item 3b is to request a shift of some of our elderly disabled program, federal program funds, to address special needs in Fayette County. We have some -- a large concentration of persons on dialysis and we just need some more money to make sure they get to their treatments. We recommend your approval on this item.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Any questions?

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: So moved.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carries. Thank you.

MS. MASSEY: Item 3c, and there's -- you'll see some common threads between items C and E. This is a federal funding package here for rural transit systems to do some expansion and -- and some backlog projects that -- that need to be taken care of. We have the opportunity to extend transit service to some previously unserved areas such as Erath County. We have the ability to -- to help some areas where local funding has been depleted and we really need to have those folks out, that includes Maverick County in this vicinity as well as Collin County and Parker County. These are federal funds and I will tell you there's -- again, the reason that things are split between items C and E is because of the impact that has long range. We have to be certain that we make our investment prudently of state and federal funding so we don't get the statutory formulas wound up with some nightmarish situations down the road. So that's why some of these projects appear in both places. We recommend your approval.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Any questions?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: I move, but go ahead.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: To what extension does this item include the necessity to discuss alternately fueled vehicles? Any?

MS. MASSEY: Well, the -- the one -- the only vehicles that are included in this item are LPG-fueled vehicles to be used in Matagorda County. At your request, sir, we did pull together a lot of information -- and I apologize. It was supposed to be in your hand before this meeting and that didn't happen. But we do have a summary for you. There is a question that a variety of alternative courses is available in this state and we have considerable deployment already in metropolitan areas. The fuel of choice to use primarily being CNG. The infrastructure of your fueling infrastructure is there. Maintenance capability exists and we also have nonpayment problems or quality nonpayment problems in many of those metropolitan regions. This goes -- using alternative fuels goes to that -- that challenge.

In rural areas, the fuel of choice would be propane and, again, the supply is ample and the fueling facilities are available, generally, ready at hand. Where the difficulty will be in doing full scale deployment where -- where the challenges are right now is in maintenance and I think we see the same problem with our TxDOT fleet in rural areas that you -- you really need to make a commitment, a maintenance commitment, in-house or -- or have that capability close at hand or you lose the use of the equipment for some time and it's certainly not feasible in transit.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Well, Margot, is it your view that all -- to make that happen is some leader at some level, be it the governor or this commission or a mayor or a county judge, just got to say, "We're going to alternative fuels? That's all there is to it. That's what we're going to do"?

MS. MASSEY: I think that -- that makes it somewhat easier to get rolling, that there's a clear direction set and we'll be there. Right now the state statutes are silent except in some very specific geographic areas and --

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Thank you.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Mr. Nichols -- Mr. Nichols has moved.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: I'll second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carries.

MS. MASSEY: Item 3d. This is requesting your approval on the -- the state formula allocations for the upcoming biennium. There are no numbers attached because it's done by statute to your formula. It's a mathematical calculation, but this gives us the ability to contract. We recommend your approval.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: So moved.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carries.

MS. MASSEY: And, finally, item 3e is the companion to C. This provides state funding to many of the same entities and, again, the reason it's split is because of funding impact based on rules and statutes. We recommend your approval.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Questions?

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: So moved.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carries.

MR. HEALD: Under Item Number 4 we have Administrative Rules, we have proposed adoption, 4a(1), Al Luedecke.

MR. LUEDECKE: Good morning, Commissioners. For the record, my name's Al Luedecke, Director of Transportation Planning and Programming Division. This minute order proposes amendments to Section 1.84 of the Texas Administrative Code concerning statutory advisory committees.

Senate Bill 195, passed by the 77th Legislature, established a Border Trade Advisory Committee as an official advisory committee to the Texas Transportation Commission and allows the department to adopt rules concerning the committee.

The seven-member committee, appointed by the commission rules, will define and develop a strategy for identifying and addressing the highest priority of border trade transportation challenges; make recommendations to the commission regarding ways in which to address the highest priority border trade transportation challenges; and advise the commission on methods for determining priorities among the competing projects affecting border trade.

The committee's advice and recommendation will provide the commission and the department with a broad perspective regarding the effect of transportation choices on border trade in general and, on particular, community.

The minute order presented to you -- for your consideration authorizes publication of the proposed rules for adoption in the Texas Register for the proposal of receiving public comments. I'm sorry -- for the purpose of receiving public comments.

The staff recommends your approval of this minute order.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Any questions or observations? Robert, I believe that you had a thought on the date that this --

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Yeah, I did express --

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: -- figure in existence?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: In notes back and forth to the staff, I had expressed a concern that the -- in the rules, we set up an expiration date of December 2003. By the time we go through the process, get a committee, they'll only have two years to work before it automatically expires. However, the commission can always renew and extend the date. I just thought like two years probably wasn't enough and maybe you ought to possibly go longer, but I defer that to the other two members and see what they think on that.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Well, my -- my only thought was do all or most of our commissions such as this expire 2003? Sign that all up together and be a -- a big congruent, but I'm certainly not married to that.

MR. LUEDECKE: It's a relatively simple matter to extend them at any time you'd like to.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Robert, would you have a suggestion?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: I think it's kind of convenient to have them all come together at the same time. Those other committees that have been in operation for several years and more important is that convenience on this is the actual action of the committee. I, personally, think it should be when we go out with this and we ought to set it up for four years, which probably would be more comparable than what the other committees have. We're not talking about that much inconvenience.

MR. LUEDECKE: No, sir. The committee has time to do the work. So my suggestion would be to change it to December.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: It's a proposed rule?

MR. LUEDECKE: Yes, it is.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: So it'll go out to the public, a lot of comments come back. I don't guess, from a legal standpoint, it makes any difference really, right, Counselor?

MR. MONROE: Doesn't really matter.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: "No," you're not counsel or "no," it doesn't matter?

MR. LUEDECKE: He's a man of few words.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: I would just like to see it at two -- you know, go two more years.

MR. LUEDECKE: We can put it in these proposed rules and see if it --

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Let the chips fall where they may.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Now, are we also the -- the issue came up as to how often the committee met and its ability to call meetings and the commission's ability to have them meet. Are we satisfied that --

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: I'm satisfied with the way it's written out.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Great. So you would move that we would -- expire it in 2005 as the abolishment date as opposed to 2003?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Yes. I would suggest -- I move that that be changed.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carries.

MR. LUEDECKE: Thank you.

MR. HEALD: Next up is Mr. Monroe still under Proposed Rules.

MR. MONROE: For the record, I am Richard Monroe, general counsel for the Texas Department of Transportation. If you approve the minute order now before you, we will publish for public comment certain rules, the real meat of which is to carry out the intent of the legislature in House Bill 922 passed in the recent legislature and by this we will give notice to the public of our proposal as to how we will carry out the purpose of that bill, that being to allow the citizens of this state to correct information about themselves in the files of state agencies. In that particular house bill, each agency was instructed to do this and to come up with rules to do it. Therefore, I would urge the commission to approve this minute order.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Any questions?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: So moved.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carries.

MR. MONROE: Thank you.

MR. HEALD: The last item under Administrative Rules is Thomas Bohuslav.

MR. BOHUSLAV: Good morning, my name is Thomas Bohuslav. I'm director of the Construction Division. Item 4a(3) proposed amendments of Section 9.14 of the Texas Administrative Code, House Bill 1138 of the 77th Legislative (unintelligible) department to allow for cashier's check or money order. A bid bond or any other method turned to the department by bid guarantees these rules be limited of $300,000 for the use of bid bonds. Staff recommends your approval.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Any questions?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: No questions. Only comment I'll make and then I'll move is that this is a required change under the legislature, correct?

MR. BOHUSLAV: That's correct.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: With that, I so move.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carries.

MR. HEALD: Moving on to Agenda Item No. 5 on the Transportation Planning and 5(a) through (d), Al Luedecke.

MR. LUEDECKE: Commissioners, pursuant to the Texas Coastal Waterway Act, Transportation Code, Chapter 51, the Texas Transportation Commission is authorized to administer its state's responsibilities as the nonfederal sponsor of the Gulf Intracoastal Waterway.

Under Section 51.005 of the Transportation Code, the commission is authorized to acquire by gift, purchase, or condemnation property or an interest in property that the commission considers necessary to enable it to meet its responsibilities under Chapter 51, including easements and rights of way for dredged material disposal sites.

The Secretary of the Army, through the Galveston District of the Corps of Engineers, has requested, after determining and documenting the immediate disposal needs along the Gulf Intracoastal Waterway, the commission to acquire property on Bolivar Peninsula as a dredged material disposal site.

Proposed disposal sites, as described in Exhibit A, has been determined to meet the immediate disposal needs identified by the corps and has become critical during the development of the long-term dredged material placement plan for this portion of the waterway. The site has been used for placement of the dredged material since 1954, and thus, would be less costly to develop and use, and will result in a reduced impact on the environment and natural resources of the area. Then -- rather than would be the case by placing a new site in that area.

Pursuant to Title 43, Texas Administrative Code, Section 2.45, the Department has investigated the disposal alternatives, coordinated the proposal -- proposed disposal plan with the appropriate state and federal natural resource agencies, and held public hearings in Galveston on February 21st, 2001, concerning the proposed disposal site. The site has been environmentally cleared.

In accordance with Section 51.006 of the Transportation Code, the commission held a public hearing on March 29th, 2001, to receive evidence and testimony concerning the desirability of the proposed disposal site. Testimony was heard from the Department, the Corps of Engineers and one party interested in the proposed acquisition.

The interested party proposed that the dredged material from Gulf Intracoastal Waterway should be pumped to State Highway 87 for shoreline restoration in lieu of placing into Placement Area 42. In the event Placement Area 42 was purchased, he requested the department reduce the size of the property acquired by 800 feet along the waterway from the east side of Placement Area 42. He proposed this alternative so that the adjacent marine service facility could obtain a permit from the Texas Natural Resources Conservation Commission for sandblasting and painting.

The department, in consultation with corps staff, reviewed the comments received. If no site was acquired and the material was pumped to State Highway 87, it would cost approximately $2.8 million for the additional pumping for each dredging cycle, which is about every three years. Over the next 50 years, this alternative will cost approximately $47 million. If the existing site was downsized by 800 feet, there'd be an estimated one-time expense of $400,000 for levee construction to reestablish the boundaries of the Disposal Area 42. In addition, the useful life of the facility would be decreased by about seven years.

The minute order presented for your consideration approves the planned acquisition of the dredging material disposal site identified in Exhibit A and authorizes the executive director to take all actions necessary to implement such a plan for acquiring the identified property or interest in property necessary to carry out the responsibilities as the nonfederal sponsor.

Staff believes that the proposed site represents the most reasonable, prudent and economical alternative and the acquisition of the proposed site can be accomplished without an unjustifiable waste of publicly or privately-owned natural resources or a permanent, substantial adverse impact on the environment, wildlife and fisheries.

We recommend approval of this minute order.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: We have two people who would like to address the commission on this issue. The first is Marisela Rangel. Welcome. I hope I did not destroy your name.

MS. RANGEL: No, you didn't. Thank you, commissioner, for allowing me this opportunity. My name is Marisela Rangel. I'm a local attorney here in Laredo. I am here on behalf of Ed Burse, he's an attorney out of Houston, who represents the waterways on the Intracoastal LTD who are the owners of 215 acres you're proposing to use. They, basically, wanted me to present a certain proposal to you. Basically, as an alternative to condemnation, the owners of the Waterways on the Intracoastal, LTD, would like to offer you the opportunity to lease a tract south of the 215 acres that measures about 4,618.52 feet by 775 feet for use as a spoil bank. The owners, obviously, would appreciate your careful consideration of this proposal.

The owners are wanting to be free to proceed with their plans to create a unique residential recreational development on the elevated portion of those approximate 215 acres which has frontage of about 7,000 feet. If there are any questions with the specifics as to their plan, one of the owners, Mr. Dan Kohlhofer, is here if the commission has any specific questions on what the plan would be or what that leasing proposal would entail.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: When was this proposal presented? Mr. Kohlhofer -- he's asked to address the commission.

MR. KOHLHOFER: Mr. Chairman, members of the commission and Mr. Heald, thank you for allowing me to speak today. Last time I spoke in Austin, I outlined five -- five alternative proposals and, evidently, the cost effectiveness overrules -- the economic side overrules. The -- the last proposal was a proposal that was just made. It involves the south part of the property, not the existing levee, and what we're proposing is to build levies on the south part of the property and lease that property back to the state as an alternative to taking the waterfront part of the property.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Well, the difficulty is that we've gone through state hearings, we've looked at quite a few alternatives and we keep coming up with more propositions and at some point in time you have to get your arms around these and say, you know, "we've studied this thing every which way from Sunday and this is the most appropriate way to go." The -- One of the things that I asked the staff to do was to look at the potential of -- I believe you gave us the idea of taking -- Is it 800 feet on the east?

MR. KOHLHOFER: That's correct.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: West? And the difficulty there, as Mr. Luedecke pointed out, a new -- it would be a $400,000 additional cost to rebuild the levee and I'm satisfied with the -- This is me talking, not the commission talking -- that we could do that because it would mean the difference, in seven years, the utilization of the entire spoiled area. The problem becomes the $400,000. And then what happens to the amount -- what happens to the land that we do not lease or take at this time? So is your group or are you willing to find a way to compensate the $400,000 difference in cost?

MR. KOHLHOFER: Well, I certainly think that that cost would be significantly less than the purchasing of the property, but the appraisals would be the only thing that -- that would dictate that and -- and --

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: I think the issue is really boiled down to are we going to utilize the entire tract as presented or are we going to take the 800 feet off of the tract, which I believe is to the east, and then there's -- Is there a county road there?

MR. KOHLHOFER: There is a county road.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Do you have a place of business just on the other side?

MR. KOHLHOFER: My partner has a place of business immediately to the west.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: And the difference in taking the whole tract and -- and the 800 feet less in terms of ultimate cost is the $400,000 it would take to rebuild the levee because, to the farthest point, the levee is already there and the levee would have to be built 800 feet to the west.

MR. KOHLHOFER: Well, that's correct. There'd have to be new levies built to offset the loss of the property that was used in the past, but I guess, just for the record, there is a new commissioner on board and I just wanted to just voice my opposition to the --

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Well, I appreciate that and I understand that.

MR. KOHLHOFER: I thank you very much.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: I know it's a lot of effort to come from Galveston to Laredo as it was to come from Galveston to Austin. But, you know, I'm personally satisfied that this issue has been thoroughly studied and in the best interest of all the parties and, unfortunately, it's not the happiest decision for all the parties, but it's in the best interest of all the parties. It's the appropriate way to go.

MR. KOHLHOFER: Okay. Well, thank you very much for your time.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Any questions or comments?

COMMISSIONER JOHNSON: I'll move to approve.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carries.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Counselor, if I go force under, please queue me up. Sir, we appreciate your comments and I appreciate your comment to me.

MR. KOHLHOFER: Thank you for the opportunity.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: It must be apparent to you that each of us, individually, had expressed to our staff we have deep concerns about taking people's property and we've shown that several times in commission meetings in the past few months. It's not just the newest of us, all three of us are. I told the group last night we're not lawyers, we're small business guys. We're very sensitive to taking people's property and we ask our staff to research for alternatives all the time to doing that. Just so you know.

MR. HEALD: Mr. Chairman, if I may, let's skip 5b and c and go to 5d. Now, I understand Representative Truitt has been very patiently waiting to speak to us. So let's go to 5(d).

MR. LUEDECKE: Improving mobility within the Dallas-Fort Worth metropolitan area represents an important transportation challenge for the department. This area represents a significant portion of the department's planning and construction efforts since it generates approximately 23 percent of the state's VMT.

The projects identified in Exhibit A to the minute order are associated with the major corridors in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. These corridors are beyond conventional funding limits, but may be moved to Priority 1 for funding using innovative financing techniques.

Priority 1 authorization will allow the districts to let the projects in the most economical and efficient manner. This expansion will enhance the mobility in the Dallas-Fort Worth metropolitan area by alleviating congestion, improving the traffic flow and the safety.

The minute order presented for your consideration authorizes the Department to proceed with project development of the projects identified in Exhibit A, advancing the $756.9 million to Priority 1, Category 3A, NHS Mobility, of the 2001 Unified Transportation Program using innovative financing techniques.

And we recommend your approval of this minute order.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: I have one card. Representative Vicki Truitt has come a long distance to speak on this matter. Welcome, Representative. We're delighted that you're here. Thank you for all that you do for not only your constituents but for this great state.

REPRESENTATIVE TRUITT: Chairman Johnson, Commissioner Nichols, Commissioner Williamson, Wes Heald, it is -- it's indeed a privilege to be here and I am a long way from home in Sonoma, Texas. I just could not pass up the opportunity -- Oh, and let me say also, of course, they have since departed, but Mr. Secretary and the mayor and the judge have been very gracious with their hospitality and I sincerely appreciate that in visiting Laredo. This is the first time I've been here and the experience has been delightful. The exchange earlier has been fascinating and, indeed, of interest to me.

I'm hopeful that -- that you will be acting positively on this agenda item. If so, this was indeed worth the trip and worth the wait, and I just couldn't miss the opportunity to be here and acknowledge your action today. You cannot imagine and I cannot adequately express how much this means to the hundreds of thousands of people who travel through the funnel on a daily basis. We appreciate the commission. We appreciate TxDOT, Wes Heald and Steve Simmons and his staff in the Fort Worth region do an outstanding job for us. We're very, very proud to have him. And on behalf of the people of Northeast Tarrant County, I just want you to -- in advance of your decision, express -- accept our expression of heartfelt thanks for your consideration. This project is so very, very important and vital to our area. You will be making a lot of people very, very happy and we appreciate you. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Thank you so much.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Each time -- Since I've been sworn into the commission, each time a sitting member has come before us, I've taken the opportunity to point out -- I think positively -- that it's a big state and there are a lot of problems in the state and they're different in different parts of the state, but we are all one state and we are one people.

REPRESENTATIVE TRUITT: That's right.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: And it's very important for members of the South Texas delegation as well as the North Texas delegation to hear from us that -- that the pressure to expand and improve and rework our transportation infrastructure over the next few years is going to be as unimaginable for the whole state as it is on you in your part of north Texas and we sincerely hope that in about a year and a half you'll be there to help explain to your colleagues that the things that we may be asking for are just going to be necessary. You just -- We can't solve the congestion problems and border inspection station problems of Laredo any quicker or any easier than we can resolve the congestion problems of north Texas where you and I live without financial and the spiritual commitment of the legislature to solve those problems.

One of the great things about being on this commission is there isn't much gray. It's an engineer's dream. It's black and white. If there's a road to build, we can build it, but somebody's got to give us the money and the support to do it and the authority to do it and we're, I think, going to be happy to help you in your area and my area, by the way. And we were happy to help Laredo today with some things they needed, but it's going to take all of us rowing the boat in about 18 months.

REPRESENTATIVE TRUITT: Commissioner --

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: We hope you'll be one of our buddies helping us row.

REPRESENTATIVE TRUITT: Commissioner, I am keenly aware of what you've -- of what you speak and I am -- think that your colleagues and Mr. Heald will tell you that I eagerly support what you do and look forward, as I'm becoming more tenured in the legislature, to be of more help to -- Transportation is the number one issue in my district. I serve -- well, currently, about 200,000 people in northeast Tarrant County. It will soon be a lot less than that. Nevertheless, the people won't go away. My district will just get a little smaller, but it's -- but it's a huge issue for me and I will continue to make it a priority in my service in the legislature and hope that you -- any of you will feel free to contact me at any time.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: We thank you.

REPRESENTATIVE TRUITT: Wes, I appreciate you. We're going to miss you and the best wishes with your retirement.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Before you step down, I just also wanted to publicly state how much I appreciate your help during the session and in between the session. Ric may not be aware, I know that when you first get on or elected as -- you know, you have first choice for committee, second choice, you write down your third choice, and on her sheet she put down transportation, transportation, transportation. I always say that, but I do appreciate the help that you did give us.

REPRESENTATIVE TRUITT: It will continue to be at the top of my list.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: I know I got in trouble a couple of times and you helped. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: I guess there's no motion here so....

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: So moved.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carried.

MR. HEALD: Mr. Chairman, before we go any further, the old man up in the audience with a gray beard is a close personal friend. His name's Jerry Hodge. He is the Director of the Public Works from the City of Grapevine and he, too, is lost in the wrong part of the state.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: I thought I recognized him.

MR. HEALD: Okay. Move, then, to believe -- if I'm not lost, 5b.

MR. LUEDECKE: Yes, sir, 5b. This minute order authorizes the department to enter into any necessary agreements with the Metropolitan Transit Authority and the Houston-Galveston Area Council to conduct the North-Hardy Corridor Study.

This study will evaluate projects along Interstate 45 North Freeway from Beltway 8 to U.S. 59 and then along U.S. 59 from Interstate 45 to Spur 527. Basically, down just to the west including State Highway 288 interchange in Harris County.

The North-Hardy Corridor Study is needed to assess the future transportation needs along the corridor and to alleviate all transit alternatives including rail -- I'm sorry, to evaluate it.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: I thought --

MR. LUEDECKE: Yeah. That's why I thought I'd correct it real quick, too. There's an outside chance you might have been distracted a little bit. I have asked Gary, personally, to be sure it is. Nick will see to that.

HGAC will serve as the lead agency for coordinating and conducting the study, with HGAC, Metro and the department jointly preparing the scope of work, interagency roles and cost-sharing agreements.

Each of these three agencies will pay $1 million for the cost of the study. And staff recommends approval of this study.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Any questions?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: So moved.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carries. Thank you.

MR. LUEDECKE: And 5c. One of the elements of the Port of Corpus Christi's waterfront development project is the implementation of a water taxi or passenger ferry service between the Texas State Aquarium and the U.S.S. Lexington Museum complex on the north side of the ship channel with the port facilities on the south side of the harbor. The water taxi will connect the Regional Transit Authority bus system at the landing area and provide an intermodal transit service for individuals traveling across town to the north side attractions.

This minute order before you authorizes $1.1 million of ferry -- Federal Ferry Boat Discretionary funds for the construction of a water taxi landing area and maintenance berth at the Port of Corpus Christi. Landing area includes docking structures, mooring structures, walkways and ancillary passenger facilities. The maintenance berth includes a fixed pier and a mooring area with personnel access and a small building for equipment storage. The project will be built using appropriate contractors with experience in this type of facility construction. The department will let him contract and inspecting the work. The project will be funded 100 percent by federal funds. The Port of Corpus Christi will operate and maintain the landing area and the maintenance berth when it's completed. We recommend approval.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: We have one speaker on this item, John LaRue, the executive director of the Port of Corpus Christi.

MR. LARUE: Good morning. It's nice to be here. My name is John LaRue. I'm the executive director of the Port of Corpus Christi, and on behalf of the Port's commissioners and the county commission, wanted to thank the dommission for this support they've shown to the port in the past with some of our projects and -- and in anticipation of a favorable action today. We look forward to working with TxDOT on this project.

As was mentioned, this will -- will tie into the southside facilities with the north side. One of the other aspects of this is this will tie in our cruise and meeting and conference facility which we just opened in October of last year. Two of those facilities and also two local hotels will give us some more mobility to people who are coming to Corpus Christi and will be staying in hotels to be able to experience the city and to be able to tie in to the cruise facility without using buses or whatever vehicle. So we ask for your favorable response. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Any questions?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: So moved.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carries.

MR. HEALD: Okay. Move on to No. 6. We have two minute orders on the City of Universal City and City of Kennedale, James Bass.

MR. BASS: Good morning. I'm James Bass, Director of TxDOT Finance Division. Agenda item 6a seeks your preliminary approval of a loan to Universal City in the amount of $305,000 with a contingency of up to an additional 20 percent to pay for the reconstruction of Kitty Hawk Road from the south city limits to Loop 1604. The SIB roadway directly connects to but is not a part of the state highway system. It is eligible to receive federally aided funds as it did back in 1988 and is eligible for assistance from SIB. The city has requested a loan term of 3-and-a-half percent over a term of six years and if we receive your preliminary approval, we will negotiate with the city for a slightly higher interest rate over a shorter term.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Any questions or observations?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Yeah, I had some comments or observations. The -- On this type of loan, in general, not so much specifically this one, but I know when we set up the SIB rules in the first place, I happened to be there when we did that, we were trying to anticipate a lot of different things, and although city streets qualify from a technical standpoint as well as some other things, within the federal guidelines, we had chosen to have a more restrictive guideline.

I know with the state funding we try to focus more on state-related projects, helping the counties, helping the cities, with their portion of the right of way, tolls, things of that. And I don't think we really anticipated the potential of cities and how much they might could come and move -- wipe out the entire fund trying to rehabilitate city streets, all of which are important -- very important to the cities. We have a limited fund. TEA-21 shut it -- shut it down in the future.

I'm -- I'm going to vote to support this one but because we had not really anticipated this, I would suggest and encourage that we follow some of the comments I heard in staff conversation that what we might do is go back and take a look at those guidelines again and try to put a cap -- dollar cap, first of all, on how much we would loan a city for a city street rehab and that we further restrict that to -- you know, real connectors to the state's system and I don't know the terminology at certain -- at a certain time talking about primary arteries, but also directed more -- directly connected and put a cap like 500,000 or something like that on it of whatever it works out. Otherwise, we would have had this fund just jumped on all from all over the state. Anyway, that's my comment.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: I pretty much feel the same way as Mr. Nichols.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: I worry also about the potential proliferation of loans of this type and if they're not on the state system. As Robert said, I don't have a problem with this one in particular because it's a significant street and it does attach to the state system, but I would request that you go back and create some criteria for a category for items that are not on the state system and this particular one being a city street and the criteria in terms of potential dollar amount, other things, the terms, the interest rates, whether it's a disadvantaged county or not. I think there's a series of considerations to be made that we ought to look at, otherwise, I do think we have the potential of, you know, the SIB being -- exhausting all its funds on loans of this type.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: On -- on the interest rates -- I know I've had numerous comments over a period of time about the rate that we charge. When we have a project that it almost mandates that a city or a county move the utilities to provide a right-of-way or something, I'm probably a little more lenient on -- on -- and then the situation of that community, whether they can afford it or whatever. So I'm probably a little more lenient or tend to from a personal standpoint on that, but when we are comparing our rates -- I think the rates schedule I've been looking at are like the state rate schedules.

MR. BASS: We look at the -- our benchmark has been the Triple A, bond rated for tax exempt bonds and we use that as a benchmark where we begin our negotiations from and many times the -- the negotiated rate is lower than that benchmark figure.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: I -- I would encourage you to take a look at -- What we don't want to do is to be in competition with free enterprise and the banks and the lending -- bonding agencies. That was not ever the purpose, but to provide something to help where help is needed to make this project work. I would encourage you to go take a look at -- just go back and take a look at what the bond ratings are of some of the different cities and counties we've loaned some of this money to and if they had to go out in the free market to borrow that money, what would their rate be? So see what I'm saying? Some of these -- I know, like, a lot of towns are like 3b or something like that. I don't know. And I know that most of the cities and counties I'm aware of are paying a substantially higher rate. So it's almost cheaper for them to come to us and get in this special fund than it is to --

MR. BASS: And as you mentioned, one of the things we look at is the financial ability of the city or the county to pay and then also the priority of that specific project within -- within that district or within the state.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: I'm not so much interested in trying to jack up the rate. I mean, if they're financially in trouble, that's the reason we try and help them. I just want to make sure that when they're looking at their choices, they don't just automatically come to this because it's one percent cheaper than going to the bond market. Anyway, appreciate your comments.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Are we ready --

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: I move.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: There's a motion on the table. All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carries.

MR. BASS: Agenda Item 6b seeks preliminary approval of a loan to the City of Kennedale in the amount of $1 million to pay their utility relocation along Business U.S. 287, which is on the state highway system, between Dick Price Road and Eden Road in Kennedale. The city has requested a 30-year payback period, and if we receive your preliminary approval, the association will work with the city to get a payback period much shorter than the requested 30 years.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: So moved.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carried. Thank you.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: You get all the easy ones.

MR. HEALD: Okay. Item Number 7. Carlos.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Carlos, I understand that you have a fan club here and I wish that you would take a moment and introduce them.

MR. LOPEZ: Well, commissioner, they were here, but my mom has a business to run so she had to go a little while ago, but she did enjoy being here earlier and enjoyed the dialogue we had earlier.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Please extend to her our apologies that she could not see you perform.

MR. LOPEZ: Thank you, Chairman. I appreciate that.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: We had a special list of questions just because you were --

MR. LOPEZ: For the record, my name is Carlos Lopez. I'm Director of TxDOT’s Traffic Operations Division. The minute order before you authorizes you to establish discretionary fund awarded to Texas under the Intelligent Transportation System Deployment Program of TEA-21 and also authorizes us to acquire state matching fund. The goal of the federal ITS program is to accelerate the (inaudible) of the existing installation in the development of ITS plans or the connection of various system components so they can work well together.

The federal funds in this minute order were designated to Corpus Christi, Austin, Beaumont, San Antonio, Round Rock and a commercial vehicle operations project through the FY 2000 - FY 2001 U.S. DOT appropriations bill. All this order authorizes a full 50 percent required state match. We will also be looking for other sources for these funds such as (inaudible) and other non-ITS-related federal funds for a match. We recommend approval of this minute order.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Any questions?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: So moved.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carried.

MR. LOPEZ: Thank you, commissioners.

MR. HEALD: Contracts, Item No. 8, Thomas Bohuslav.

MR. BOHUSLAV: Morning, Commissioners. My name is Thomas Bohuslav, I'm a Texas Tech. graduate and very proud of it. I'm Director of Construction as well. Item 8a(1), consideration of award or rejection of highway improvement contracts whose engineer’s estimates are $300,000 or more. We recommend award of all projects.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Any questions?

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Yes. How many of these have incentives/disincentives?

MR. BOHUSLAV: How many have what?

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Incentives/disincentives.

MR. BOHUSLAV: Maintenance projects don't have incentives and --

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: We don't at all?

MR. BOHUSLAV: Not in maintenance projects.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Really?

MR. BOHUSLAV: Yeah. Disincentives, not -- not incentives.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Is there any way to have incentives with maintenance?

MR. BOHUSLAV: Generally, in maintenance contracts, you're talking about mowing and landscape work and all -- maintenance work and so on.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: You can't say, like, within 20 days as an incentive or within ten days as an incentive?

MR. BOHUSLAV: It's possible. We use something called (unintelligible) based on some real cost out there and, typically, don't have road meter delays (unintelligible) type work. If they were, we could include it for (unintelligible) on that, but with enough traffic volume out there. It's possible.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: I'd be interested in just -- even if the other two aren't, it'd be kind of interesting if the proposal could be incentivized. It'd be interesting.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Any motion?

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: So moved.

MR. HEALD: Thomas and I are planning, too -- we're trying to promote disadvantaged business program and promote that and that, too, caused a hitch in the program. And a lot of these contractors for maintenance just call a contractor and say, 'Hey, we got no guard rail out here. Can you come out and fix it?' so it's a little bit different than the norm.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: I second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carries.

MR. BOHUSLAV: Item 8a(2) is for consideration of award or rejection of highway construction billing contractors on July 10th and 11th, 2001. We had 81 contracts. We have four projects we recommend for rejection. First one is in Cass County. We had one bidder on the project. Project No. is CBC4704-00-102. That's (unintelligible) work for administrative buildings. They're 34 percent over. We'd like to go back and advertise and try to solicit more bids for that project.

Second project we recommend for rejection is in Harris County. It's Project No. 3224, had two bidders on the project. The last project was for 35 percent over. I'd like to go back and do some redesign work and look into options for providing (unintelligible) foundation on that project.

Additional projects we recommend for rejection is in Sterling County, Project No. 3215. This is landscape work. I'd like to go back and do some redesign. There was one bidder and it was 34 percent over.

And the last project recommended for rejection is in Titus County, Project No. 3044. There were two bidders on this project. We need to look at the -- relook at the (unintelligible) base item on this job and modify those specifications. We think we can save a lot of money by modifying the specifications and still have projects out there.

Staff recommends award of all projects with the exceptions as noted.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Same question, Tom. Incentives/disincentives?

MR. BOHUSLAV: Yes. Those were submitted to you. They should be in your packets.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Are you having any luck having the districts to use that more and more?

MR. BOHUSLAV: I think they're looking for more opportunity. We've seen a gradual increase over the past -- at least past five years I know. We're seeing a lot more use of calendar days at a minimum and then incentive project, we've seen those used by more rural districts probably more recently (inaudible) districts have been using them for a while up in Dallas (unintelligible) starting to look more to use those in their projects as well.

We gave you a listing as projects and there's 11 projects there that had some type of incentive for contracts for early completion on those.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Just let me --

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Eleven out of how many?

MR. BOHUSLAV: 81. There's about $9 million worth of -- of contract amount.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Let me see it for myself, Mr. Chairman. Let me just encourage Thomas to encourage these. We can't go wrong by giving them rewards for going faster and better than for kind of making it go going slower and not better. I just encourage you to encourage to DES to make that part of their contracts.

MR. BOHUSLAV: We had discussed this before. I did bring up one point in this and we do have some difficulty with the right of way issue or utility issues on projects. If you have incentives, you get into a -- fights over the effect of those utilities and so on. So there is some concern about that in whether you pay for incentives and the utilities and how you add that in and so forth. It does get to be (inaudible) issues on those types. I did want to make you aware as well.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: I think one of those actually had the item stated on it. Wasn't it on a quick take or something like that worked on some legislation speed up the right of way process? And if we would solve that problem legislatively, then you can -- I know it was a trip. It was like a catch-22. On some of these things there are some tricky right of way issues we cut loose on the city thinking we're going to get the right of way and then all of a sudden we're in court. We get drug out and then we are having to pay the incentive and nothing going on.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Well, let's see, the three of us got toll equity and mobility fund and God knows what else they passed last session, so next session going --

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: There's a whole package we put together about a year and a half, two years ago on speeding up thing -- how to speed things up and it was a whole -- what was it -- about 42 items. They were all legislatively required.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: 2003 we're going to discuss on that, gives us our goal like that.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: That's one of the primary goals of -- that's been recommended by the worker, also the project delivery and this -- I mean, it all fits right in. We have one speaker on this item, Anthony Goss, president Goss who comes from Orange.

MR. GOSS: Actually, Beaumont. I appreciate you-all letting me talk. I'm not a well-prepared speaker. I'm not -- I didn't write a speech or nothing. This is straight from the heart. If I could -- My name is Anthony Goss and I'm with Goss Building. I'm with Goss Building in Beaumont, Texas. If you could look at Jefferson Project No. CBC47070-00-079, that was a project -- a retrofit reroof for a Beaumont facility. There was four bidders on the project besides Monroe. There was Bid Bonds -- well, actually, Bid Security provided -- I believe it's $30,000 straight across the board. They didn't allow bid bond. And if I could take a moment just to give you a view on bid bond/bid security, I believe that the bid bond and bid security was not designed to punish contractors for making mistakes or -- or I think more or less it was designed to keep a contractor focused on bidding a project with his utmost ability to pay attention to the -- to the details of the project to get it the right -- the proper attention it needs before it got bid so you can give a good bid.

I don't know where the rules lie. I know that on this particular project I felt very confident with my proposal until the day that, you know, the bid had come out and my estimator and I, we worked real hard on it to get a good number. Wasn't even concerned when I seen that I was over $200,000 low on $601,000 job. That's how high my confidence -- I felt in my -- in my preparations of -- of preparing this proposal.

However, the day that I found out, I was speaking to one of my subcontractors on the phone in regards to the proposal and going down my spreadsheet and telling him, basically, looking at doing a job and while I was speaking to him, I actually looked on his line item where, you know, my spreadsheet where I plugged him in and I had made a -- I had put his name in one column and put an amount in another column. It was the wrong column. The way my spreadsheet's designed, it's got, like, six columns across there. You have a unit price -- two columns of unit price that spread across the spreadsheet. If you know the unit price or plug in a name and you put it in a column, it all tallies at the end. Well, obviously, I put his name with his amount, which is 98,800, in the wrong location. Basically, I guess, in a nutshell, I had a spreadsheet error. I'm either -- you know, I'm really -- I'm looking to save my $30,000, you know, as a bid security. It wasn't a bid bond. That's money right out of my company. I'm not looking to get out of the project. I wanted to do this project.

Had it been erroneous or something, you know, I didn't do my homework, didn't get a bid or something like that, I certainly would expect to do the project or at least get all of this security. However, this was my error. It's a legitimate spreadsheet error. I don't know, you know, rules and what not, like that. Anyway, that's my petition, to either -- you know, give me the opportunity -- I presented a letter showing them -- I gave them the spreadsheet and showed them how it worked, showed them where the mistake was, and you can see it was an honest mistake and I just, you know, gave them the opportunity -- you know, even if I'd had the spreadsheet correct, I'd have still been $80,000 lower and more than comfortable to have done the project by that. It's not -- it's not something that I missed anything on.

But, anyway, just wanted to come before the board and see what the chances were of retaining my bid security or -- or even doing it for the proper amount. I would even take a penalty of some sort on it. If I did the project right now, I would lose $64,000 and, you know -- I don't know. I've tried to figure out ways to make it up or to save face, you name it, and as extreme as it was, there's just no way. So there was my petition to you. I'm trying to protect my -- my bid security, if possible. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Please understand that we appreciate your coming a long distance to be here. The problem that exists is that the system itself must be held invalid in terms of its security and sanctity and every time someone makes a mistake or -- we cannot be accountable for that and -- I mean, that's an unfortunate thing because people do make mistakes. But we have to protect them, you know, the bidding system. And in this case, there were other bidders. You know, they're penalized if we treat your bid any differently from their bid and, you know, for that reason, I have a lot of heartburn with setting precedent but we -- mistakes are made that we just have the ability to throw it out. I mean, mistakes are made and that's an unfortunate thing. I regret that I don't feel empowered to -- you know, to reject this bid.

Robert, do you have anything?

MR. NICHOLS: I had several comments. First of all, I also appreciate you coming. I know it's a long way and I lived in Beaumont about five years so I know how far it is. But you've got a number of people on this commission that are business owners and I know I used to bid a lot of projects myself, some with, like, the federal government and it's a very serious business and I'm sure you take it very seriously, but when I bid and put that out there, I knew that whatever I put in there, you know, I might get it. So I'd better really doublecheck my stuff.

And the penalty or the -- you know, if we award this as recommended then, you know, it's -- there's hit there, but that hit is not there as a punishment or penalty to you. There are a lot of serious expenses that are involved in this process. The process of the staff and you-all and the things, the staff getting all this ready, advertising time, delay of the project itself, all the other bidders who also spent time and energy putting those things together and everything worked on is open and out there for everybody.

So it's -- if, you know, you had caught and doublechecked your worksheets and found the error and pulled the bid before bid opening, you know, that'd be one thing. But you waited until you actually saw what the others bid in this case and I kind of wonder if some other people were real anxious to get this and were lowballing. Thirty percent low on a project is -- I've seen it before. We had some close to that in here where they came out that much lower. If you had had some other bidders who had bidded very close to what you had bid on this underbidding, would you have even known you'd made an error until after you accepted the job? I don't know. But I just -- that's really -- We're not trying to punish you and I do empathize with you.

Chairman Johnson said, you know, it's an inviolent system. We got to protect the system. We're dealing with billions of our taxpayers' dollars and it's very important for the public as well as all the people in the industry to have conflict, although, sometimes it's brutally consistent. It's something they can count on and depend on to be fair and objective all the way through this thing. And, occasionally, this happens and I feel for you.

MR. GOSS: Yeah. I appreciate you letting me talk. I had seen, you-all, you know, reject all bids and rebid the project. I guess that's what I was kind of hoping for. I think -- you know, to me, it turns out to be gambling more than it does bidding. You know, 'cause you gamble that you don't make a mistake.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Well, like Mr. Johnson and Mr. Nichols, I, bid, too, on jobs.

MR. GOSS: Then you know how it is on bid day to scramble to get it out there. It's a nightmare.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: I've built a few pipelines for a lot less than what I got paid to do it because I made mistakes. I understand that. The Commission is not interested in hurting small business people. We've had this a lot lately, seems like, like several of these. But the problem is we handle, I don't know, 4 or 5, $6 billion a year on the public (inaudible).

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Five.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Five billion? And if we don't have, as Mr. Nichols said, just a brutal system that allows for no exceptions, then the public can't believe what we do is straight ahead. I want you to take that price and finish that job.

MR. GOSS: I won't keep looking at it before I get it out.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: That's the way.

MR. GOSS: It's up to my bond company anyway.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: You can move a corner here, move a corner there and work -- You can make this happen. You can do this.

MR. GOSS: All right. Well, let's talk to Mike Medley over there and let him help me.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: I believe the motion needs a second for approval.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: So moved.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye)

What we're going to do is we're going to take open comments at this point in time and then we will move into Executive Session and then come back and reconvene the meeting and finish the business at hand, which consists of Agenda Items 9 and -- So open comments -- The good mayor of Del Rio -- Has she left?

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: She was outside politicking so she didn't waste her trip.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: And Dan Kohlhofer. You wanted to visit on the ferry and Highway 87 and Highway 124 in Galveston and Chambers County.

MR. KOHLHOFER: Thank you once again. I just want to leave you with this article I faxed you yesterday, but sometime in mid June our worst nightmare occurred on the Galveston ferry and we lost, I guess, the north landing on the Bolivar side. We had to go through July 4 weekend with four-hour lines on the Galveston side, four-hour lines on the Bolivar side. We -- we desperately need some help with the third landing. The only question that I can ask is what would happen if we lost the other landing on the same side? Would that -- would that corridor just be shut down forever until it was repaired?

Also, just another point that I brought up last time about signage. We need to have some signs up closer to Interstate 10 in Cameron County area where we had the (unintelligible) especially with signs that we can read. And the third point on the ferries is that the security part has been addressed and it's very much improved and I do appreciate Galveston police officers riding the ferry on -- on the midnight shift. It makes it a lot -- lot safer.

The fatalities on Highway 87, we had two -- two on Saturday. Two separate accidents. We seem to have an abnormally large amount of auto-pedestrian accidents on 87. Most of it is speed related. I know that they have started to install some traffic signals. They started sometime back in October of last year. They're -- they're still not connected. And I just wanted to know if anybody could shed light on the delay 'cause I think that at least one of those pedestrian accidents could have been avoided. It happened, approximately, 200 yards from the traffic signal. It's not hooked up yet.

Also, on -- in reference to the fatality accident. It took DPS -- the only DPS trooper that showed up, three hours to get to that fatality wreck. So that dead body stayed out there for three hours until he arrived. Something needs to be done and I know that -- that you're not over the Department of Public Safety, but something needs to be done to protect the innocent people on the highway. The same problem happens on 124. We just -- we have excessive speed. I don't know what we can do to control it, but we have enough police protection either from the local authorities or the state authorities and if there's anything you can do to help, we sure would appreciate it. Thank you.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Well, thank you for coming. It's -- it's nice to see citizens with great public mind and -- and spirit come and address concerns and concerns for the public welfare. We'll look into those items. One thing I want you to note, my recollection is our capital sends your budget before the Appropriations Committee so I hear it contained another landing for the ferry and it was not accepted by the legislature, but we're keenly aware of trying to make that the most efficient crossing as we can, especially with the amount of traffic that it handled.

MR. HEALD: I want to make some real quick comments. Yes, sir, it's a separate strategy set up by, I guess, because of the -- the way we were legislated to do it and we worked very diligently and Mr. Trietsch (inaudible) that (unintelligible) through there, we worked very hard and we actually were rejected. For what reason, I don't know. We just never could get anybody's attention. Mike has already -- he and Gary Trietsch is already working on this issue some way, somehow, and I don't know just how we're going to do it. We're going to have to overcome those obstacles and build that third landing. Mr. Trietsch, today, is proceeding with the environmental assessment. Perhaps, by the time he completes the environmental assessment, we'll be into another legislative session. But we've got to overcome this. If nothing else, Commissioner Williamson, we've got to get that strategy done away with before that ferry money actually comes out of construction money. It doesn't make any difference whether it's ferry or whether it's a highway. It's still transportation.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Indeed. Indeed.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: We will now break into Executive Session. We are, by the agenda that was posted, the schedule, this commission can discuss matters of employment matters, address our counsel and talk about right of way matters. The time is now 12:07 and we'll reconvene the regular part of the meeting as soon as we can conclude the Executive Session. (Commission goes into Executive Session)

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: The meeting of the Texas Transportation Commission is reconvened. The commission has concluded -- the commission has concluded its Executive Session with no action being taken on any matter. Thank everyone for their patience.

Wes, if we could move to the next item on the agenda.

MR. HEALD: Okay, Mr. Chairman, I'm going to put it in high gear here, if you have any questions. Item No. 9, Routine Minute Orders, 9a, Speed Zones, establish or alter regulatory and construction speed zones on various sections of highways in the state.

(The court reporter informs Mr. Heald that he is speaking too fast.)

MR. HEALD: Item No. 9a, Speed Zones, establish or alter regulatory and construction speed zones in various sections of highways in the state.

(To the court reporter) Will that work?

THE COURT REPORTER: Yes.

MR. HEALD: Item 9b, Highway Designation, Bastrop County; designate State Highway 71 from FM 20 to Loop 150 in Bastrop as a controlled access facility.

Item 9c, a Donation; in Tom Green County - approve a donation from Ethicon, Incorporated, for the San Angelo Tree Entryscape project as part of the department's Adopt-a-Highway for Landscaping Program.

And I believe their intent there is to donate a certain amount of money to water this landscape.

9d, Right-of-Way Disposition, Purchase and Lease. Starting with 1, Childress County. U.S. 287 at 17th Street in Childress - Consider the sale of part of the surplus district headquarters site to Childress County. And all these dispositions, purchase and lease, I think they're all based on all the priority -- property -- excess property we were independently based on appraised value.

Also in Childress County, being the next item, Avenue G northwest in Childress -- Consider the sale of a surplus maintenance site to West Texas Utility Company.

Next item in Collin -- Collin County - State Highway 190 at Lookout Drive West in Richardson - Consider the exchange of drainage easements.

In Dallas County - IH 20 at Polk Street in Dallas - Consider the sale of surplus access rights.

In Duval County - State Highway 16 at Laredo Street in Freer - Consider the sale of a surplus maintenance site to Duval County Emergency Services District No. 1.

In Jones County - Business U.S. Highway 277 in Stamford - Consider the sale of a surplus maintenance site to the City of Stamford.

In Lamar County - FM 1497 at County Road 14650 -- which I assume is a mistake -- at County Road 14650 -- maybe not -- south of Paris - Consider the sale of a surplus right-of-way and a surplus easement.

Under Eminent Domain being 9e, Request for eminent domain proceedings on noncontrolled and controlled access highways. There's a list there as usual.

And, Mr. Chairman, that ends the Routine Minute Orders.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Are there any questions relative to the Routine Minute Orders?

MR. NICHOLS: Yes, sir, more like a comment. I did get my questions all answered on the Bastrop County controlled access on 71. With -- on the access right in Dallas County, we -- there's a lot of communications back and forth on that, but because the road has been built in open and the Department are having already donated as much and has been accepted, I'm going to go ahead and support that we vote for it, but I feel like I'm voting on something after the fact. I strongly, very strongly, recommend to this commission and to our administration that we doublecheck a system that assumes to be kind of weak in this area. We have got to get control of some of these frontage roads that are being built and planned.

I do not think that it is a policy decision, particularly with some of the big interstates that are the -- like I 20 is the only interstate that works for each of the west movement to Dallas-Fort Worth and whether that one or some of these others, before we go and have a district build a frontage road and take money from property owners for the construction and work all those kind of deals out, we need to have this commission vote and approve it before the action is taken by the district instead of after the fact.

And we need to -- I recommend we go back and review that and make it real clear to the -- if everyone's in agreement, that we do something about the process that's more protective of some very valuable rights that are going to be hard to replace.

MR. HEALD: Mike, do you want to respond or you got any thoughts? And I would say for the record that we agree with you with that question and actually do have a witness and I think Mike has a plan of action.

MR. BEHRENS: Mike Behrens, Engineering Operations. Commissioner Nichols, as we discussed yesterday, this matter -- talked to some of the staff this morning and I think that we can put a plan together that would address bringing recommendations to the commission prior to commitment being made to any cities or local entities or developers, for that matter. Looking at -- First of all, of course, if there is any definite need for one of these facilities and then if -- as part of the recommendation, you know, if it is felt that it is something that needs to be -- be done, that we consider very stringent access control to that frontage road so that we don't tend to clog up the flow of the -- the freeway and also the frontage roads.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Okay. As long as we get involved before the decision.

MR. BEHRENS: We can make that happen.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Okay. Does that take us a month or two to get that?

MR. HEALD: Yeah. We'll initiate it, get a plan of action.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: We do not have any pressing or pending sale of access rights on any of these?

MR. HEALD: We are currently getting a handle of what we have out there.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: But we don't have any of those things pressing whereby we can't get our arms around this issue?

MR. BEHRENS: Not to my knowledge. I would recommend that if we do, that we would try to defer those until we could bring it back to the commission.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: You did notice that the Texas A & M graduate did not grab the microphone the way the Texas Tech graduate did?

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: That's all my questions.

MR. HEALD: And I want to -- again, to emphasize that this may be one of the biggest most far-reaching decisions that you-all have made in a long time as far as protecting access rights. And, certainly, it's big for Texas and we appreciate you taking that kind of stance on maybe helping build a more better Texas.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: Any other questions or comments on this particular agenda item?

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Move.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Motion carried.

Is there any other business that needs to come before the commission today? The chair recognizing none -- if there is no other business before the commission, I will entertain a motion to adjourn.

COMMISSIONER NICHOLS: Move.

COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSON: Second.

CHAIRMAN JOHNSON: All in favor signify by saying "aye." (All say aye) Please note for the record that it is 1:20 p.m. and this meeting is adjourned.

(Meeting adjourned at 1:20 p.m.)

STATE OF TEXAS

* COUNTY OF WEBB *

I, PATRICIA M. GREEN, Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas, do hereby certify that I reported the Texas Transportation Commission Meeting in the aforementioned heading on the 26th day of July, 2001, and that the foregoing pages constitute a true and correct transcript of my shorthand notes, to the best of my ability, taken at said time and place.

Witness my hand and seal of office this the _______ day of August, 2001.

__________________________________

PATRICIA M. GREEN, Certified
Shorthand Reporter in and for the
State of Texas
CSR # 3614, Expires 12-31-02